.22lr Bolt Precision, Optic?

[janus408]

I have been all over the page trying to pick out my first optic, for my first bolt action. I will be using this .22lr as a trainer to learn precision shooting and the mildot system. I originally was going to go with the Mueller APT because of its wide use with rimfirecentral members and the lifetime warranty. Between then and now I have looked at the SuperSnipers in fixed 12x and 16x, some of the Bushnell Elite 3200s, Vortex Optics in my range, the Primary Arms Mil/Mil FFP 4-14x, the BSA mil/mil Midway has, and countless others.

I am back to where I started, thinking I will just pick up the Mueller APT even though its Mil/MOA. What would you guys with experience go with? Budget is hopefully under $200, but I can stretch it to $400 if absolutely necessary (I just have a hard time justifying $400 optics on a $200 gun, and a .22lr at that).

The gun is a Savage Mark II FV-SR with a 0 MOA rail, Boyds Tacticool Stock, Harris-Clone Bipod from a SnipersHide groupbuy, DIP bottom Metal, and planning on these rings if they fit the optic I decide on. It will be pillar and glass bedded, and I will get a 20MOA scope rail if necessary once I grab my optics.

[FMJBT]

The BSA Mil/Mil FFP is actually a pretty decent scope. The turrets are kind of mushy, but the adjustments are accurate and the reticle design lends itself well to the hand grenade-like trajectory of the .22 LR. I had one mounted to my AR 308 for several hundred rounds, then onto a 300 win mag for another 50 rounds. The recoil didn't seem to have any adverse affects on it. The Primary Arms FFP would be a good choice as well, although I like the reticle on the BSA more than the standard mil dot of the PA scope.

[sholling]

Muller are okay for the money but I wouldn't wish a BSA on someone I hated. I use Weaver V24 scopes on two of my benchrest 22s and they are really good scopes for the money. Natchez has a sale going on Weaver V series scopes.

V24 6-24x42 Mil-Dot $340
V24 6-24x42 Bal-X $270
V24 6-24x42 Varminter $320
V16 4-16x42 Dual-X $280

[ar15barrels]

I've given my advise over and over land you know where I stand.
My advice comes from years of competing in 22lr precision rifle matches and in teaching people how to shoot their precision rifles so I have seen most of these scopes on the line and know which ones worked and which ones fail.

Whatever you get should meet these requirements:
Made in Japan, phillipines or Korea.
Parallax adjustable.
Major brand name. (Bushnell, Nikon, Weaver etc...)
Variable power down to at least 6x and preferably 4x on the bottom of the range. (top of the range is not as important).

Don't worry about moa vs. mil turrets.
Being forced to learn both systems will only benefit you later...
The repeat ability of the mechanics is the most important thing in the rifles ability to be precise whichj is what you need for your training to be effective.
Don't cheap out on glass.
It's common to spend 1.5x-2x the cost of the rifle on the glass in the precision rifle game.
Just do it.

[janus408]

I've given my advise over and over land you know where I stand.
My advice comes from years of competing in 22lr precision rifle matches and in teaching people how to shoot their precision rifles so I have seen most of these scopes on the line and know which ones worked and which ones fail.

Whatever you get should meet these requirements:
Made in Japan, phillipines or Korea.
Parallax adjustable.
Major brand name. (Bushnell, Nikon, Weaver etc...)
Variable power down to at least 6x and preferably 4x on the bottom of the range. (top of the range is not as important).

Don't worry about moa vs. mil turrets.
Being forced to learn both systems will only benefit you later...
The repeat ability of the mechanics is the most important thing in the rifles ability to be precise which is what you need for your training to be effective.
Don't cheap out on glass.
It's common to spend 1.5x-2x the cost of the rifle on the glass in the precision rifle game.
Just do it.

Yes, and thanks again for all of the information. The problem I have had is I have posed this question and others like it here, Rimfirecentral, snipershide and to gunnit, and each seems to have its own recommendation. Like I've said previously, while I am not new to firearms, I am new to the precision/bolt action/optics game. I know if I could hold 4-5 of these scopes and look through them I would have the answer immediately, but buying on a picture and stats with something like this is what I am having trouble with.

Thank you for the breakdown of requirements, I have heard time and time again not to buy Chinese glass, which the Mueller APT appears to be, as well as the BSA. Back to the drawing board and more reading I guess.

[FMJBT]

Do you plan on competing with the rifle at all? For a competition rifle, I wouldn't skimp on glass. For something taken to the range on weekends maybe a few times a month, a scope like the BSA 4-14X44 FFP will work fine. If you do plan on competing with it, I'd opt for something more along the lines of the Bushnell 3-12X44 FFP or Vortex Viper PST or HS. Without the 20 moa base, you'll want to look at scopes with larger ranges of internal adjustment. Id suggest something with at least 60 moa of adjustment at a minimum, with 75-80 being preferable.

[ar15barrels]

Do you plan on competing with the rifle at all? For a competition rifle, I wouldn't skimp on glass.

I don't think that competition is a requirement for owning good glass, but reliable glass is certainly a requirement in order to be competitive.
The OP specifically said he wants to train to build proficiency before a future precision rifle purchase.
You don't have to want to compete to want to be good with your rifle.
Competition certainly drives you to be better with your rifle though.

The training he will be doing will only as good as good as the equipment he is training with.
Say he buys a cheap scope that does not track reliably.
Then he is not seeing a proper reaction on target when he turns the knobs.
What has he learned?

The biggest factor in precision rifle shooting is confidence.
You have to have good equipment to have the confidence that the equipment is responding when you ask it to do something.
That way you will be able to tell when the shooter is the problem and when the equipment is the problem.
If your equipment does not respond correctly to requests, how do you gain the confidence you need?

If you are having to second guess your equipment, you will never reach the level of proficiency you want to reach because you won't know if it is the shooter or the equipment causing the problem.
That's what I call wasted training.

Don't waste your training effort with cheap equipment that holds you back...

[janus408]

So once again I feel fairly certain I have found what I am going with. I tried to hit on all the things Randall recommended. Its a Weaver. It is Mil/Mil, 3-10x. Reticule calibrated at the 10x. Got really good reviews as a .22lr trainer at snipershide, guys shooting .22lr at 25-200 yards with it and didn't need parallax adjustment.

So what say you?


It's all in a cart ready to order~

[ar15barrels]

So once again I feel fairly certain I have found what I am going with. I tried to hit on all the things Randall recommended. Its a Weaver. It is Mil/Mil, 3-10x. Reticule calibrated at the 10x. Got really good reviews as a .22lr trainer at snipershide, guys shooting .22lr at 25-200 yards with it and didn't need parallax adjustment.

So what say you?


It's all in a cart ready to order~

If it does not have parallax adjustment, you are gonna learn a lot about how well your cheek sits on the rifle.
If you don't keep your cheek in the same place, the bullets wont land in the same place.

For me, I want the parallax adjustable to the distance I am shooting at so that if my cheekweld is not perfect, my bullets still go where I aim them...
This matters less for basic prone shooting, but is huge for positional and improvised positions.

[Davinho]

Take a look at Falcon Optics:

http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-Riflescopes-C3324.aspx?gclid=CP-Amquq9bMCFYhcpQodkTkAWQ

I have the 4-14x44FFP on my CZ-452 and have had success in local tactical precision .22 matches. For your purposes (and mine), reliable/repeatable adjustments are a lot more important than quality glass. The glass is good enough, and it shoots a box reliably. The knobs are large and firm, with distinct clicks, and the whole scope designed to function like a real tactical scope. Perfect for a .22 "sniper trainer".

[sholling]

So once again I feel fairly certain I have found what I am going with. I tried to hit on all the things Randall recommended. Its a Weaver. It is Mil/Mil, 3-10x. Reticule calibrated at the 10x. Got really good reviews as a .22lr trainer at snipershide, guys shooting .22lr at 25-200 yards with it and didn't need parallax adjustment.

So what say you?


It's all in a cart ready to order~

This would not be my choice for a 22. Don't get me wrong it's a great centerfire hunting scope but it is not a target scope. Listen to ar15barrels' advice and get something with an adjustable objective. With a 22 you're going to be doing most of your shooting at 50-100 yards and for that I'd use a 4-16x or a 6-24x with an adjustable objective.

There is also no need for heavy rings on a 22. There isn't enough recoil to cause scope movement and it's just a waste. Anything from $15 Leupold Rifleman rings at the low-end to $50 Burris Signature Zee will work just fine.