Mil vs Moa question

[infringed711]

I have a question for those of you who have tried both. For me it seems easier to think in moa 1" at 100 is pretty straight forward. However I see a lot of people using mil and was wondering after you get used to it is it easier to think in mil, and how do both do with using your reticule to figure out the range of targets? Does one excell over the other in certain areas?

[Evo]

Mil is base 10, that alone is easier to deal with. Also, almost all military rangefinding is based off mil or mil-dot so it's easy to find resources like the mildot master.

Plus 1CM@100M is one click (.1 mil) on a mil/mil scope. I don't think in meters but it really is a much more elegant system.

[PrimaryArms]

If your using the mill dots to range it makes sense to use mills. Also if your spotter detects splash or swirl then he can call out your mill adjustment instantly. Another advantage is that when shooting further out there are less clicks there for less revolutions on your turret. Another is holding over if your DOPE calls for 2 Mill up you can just hold over. I hope this makes sense.
If your looking to get into a Mill scope I can help you we have a good one with
front focal point allowing you to range and hold over on any magnification

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_4_14X44_FFP_Scope_p/pa4-14xffp.htm

Dimitri

[OpticsPlanet]

Here is a great write up done on Mil vs MOA that explains it very well, this is from Randall from AR15 barrels:



The actual choice of either MIL or MOA is a ford vs chevy arguement.
Both cars will get you to work every day and both measurement systems will get you hits when used properly.

There are basically two camps supporting the two different systems.
First, you have the MIL crowd.
1 MIL is 3.6" at 100yds and can easily be rounded to 3.5" for ease of calculations in your head.
This rounding will create a 2.8% margin of error.
The biggest thing the MIL crowd have going for them is the military's use of that system and all the development the supporting of MIL-specific tools, binoculars, scopes etc.
The basic premise why you should get a MIL reticle is "because military/leo uses it".
When used in a rangefinding role, the MIL system requires a more complicated calculation to figure out how far away a known-dimension target is located.
The accuracy of the MIL system at rangefinding relies on the ability of the user to divide up the milradian markings as precisely as possible when measuring the angular size of a target.
To reach 1/10MIL reading, you have to divide up the space between two dots into 10 segments and then approximate how many segments your target occupies.
Try this: hold your thumb and first finger out in front of you like you are measuring something.
Now look across the room and find something that fits say 1/3 or 2/3 of the distance between your thumb/finger.
Do not adjust your fingers to fit the object.
Now determine how many 1/10's of that space between thumb/finger does the object fill.
Is it 2/10? Is it 3/10? Is it 4/10?
That's what you need to determine when measuring the height to 1/10 of a MIL.

Then, you have the MOA crowd.
1 MOA is 1.047" at 100yds and can easily be rounded to 1" for ease of calculations in your head.
This rounding will create a 4.5% margin of error.
The biggest thing the MOA crowd have going for them is the ingrained use of inches as a common measurement system.
The basic premise why you should get an MOA reticle is "because everyone knows what an inch looks like".
When used in a rangefinding role, the MOA system has a less complicated calculation to figure out how far away a known-dimension target is located.
It's easier to calculate a distance in MOA without a calculator as there is no "27.7 MIL factor" in the formula.
The MIL crowd will be quick to point out that for the best accuracy of measurements, you still need to use a calculator and they are correct, but for a really quick (no calculator) range calculation, the MOA formula is simpler.
The accuracy of the MOA system at rangefinding relies on the finer resolution of MOA markings when measuring the angular size of a target.
To reach a 1/4 MOA reading, you only have to divide up the space between two hash marks into 4 segments and then approximate how many segments your target occupies.
Try this: hold your thumb and first finger out in front of you like you are measuring something.
Now look across the room and find something that fits say 1/3 or 2/3 of the distance between your thumb/finger.
Do not adjust your fingers to fit the object.
Now determine how many 1/4's of that space between thumb/finger does the object fill.
Is it 1/4? Is it 1/2? Is it 3/4?
That's what you need to determine when measuring the height to 1/4 of an MOA.

The adjustment of a single 1/10 MIL click is roughy 3/8" at 100yds so that's the intrinisic accuracy of the MIL system.
The adjustment of a single 1/4 MOA click is roughy 1/4" at 100yds so that's the intrinisic accuracy of the MOA system.
So, while MIL clicks are not as precise as MOA clicks, they also requires fewer clicks to adjust the scope from one elevation setting to another elevation setting.
This is an important factor when you need to adjust the scope from your 100yd zero to another distance quickly.
Let's say your bullet drops 54" from your 100yd zero to your 500yd zero.
That would equate to 10.25 MOA or 3 MIL of adjustment.
If you were to compare two nightforce scopes, the MOA knobs have 10 MOA of adjustment on one turn and the MIL knobs have 5 MIL of adjustment on one turn.
So, you can see it's quicker to turn the MIL knob 2/3 of a turn than it is to turn the MOA knob 1 full turn plus another click.
However, at 500yds, a single 1/4 MOA click equals 1.3" while a single 1/10 MIL click equals 1.8" so you can also see that the MOA system has 30% finer resolution when trying to dial-in your impact precisely.

My summary in support of the MOA system is that you have a finer resolution to work with that's easier to use for rangefinding without a calculator, but fewer companies making scopes with MOA reticles.
My summary in support of the MIL system is that you have quicker adjustments and more support in the variety of scope manufacturers and the wonderful "mil-dot master" sliderule that eliminates the need of a calculator to quickly estimate ranges.
__________________
Randall Rauschwww.ar15barrels.com


Trevor B.

[Horton Fenty]

Mil is base 10, that alone is easier to deal with. Also, almost all military rangefinding is based off mil or mil-dot so it's easy to find resources like the mildot master.

Plus 1CM@100M is one click (.1 mil) on a mil/mil scope. I don't think in meters but it really is a much more elegant system.

Yep, much more elegant. If you can move decimal places around in your head mil is simple. One mil is 1/1000 of the distance your shooting. One mil at 1000 yards is one yard, 36 inches. A 10th, .1 mil, is 3.6 inches at 1000. One mil at 250 yards is 9 inches, 1/4 of one yard. A 10th, .1 mil, at 250 would be .9 inches. Etc, etc. Ranging something is easy to do in your head with a mildot reticle. Size of the object in yards times a thousand divided by mil's read equals distance to target. It's easier for me to do mil math in my head than moa. Then with something like a mildot master and accurate dope the fun begins.

[infringed711]

Thank you for all of your replies

[Lone_Gunman]

My issue is that I think in inches/feet/yards and I primarily use iron sights which are adjusted in MOA. (AR-15, M1A, M1 Garand) So it's really hard for me to wrap my head around Mils.

[HK Dave]

Nothing wrong with MIL or MOA... just make sure to get yourself turrets that match your reticle to make your life easier. It only really becomes a problem when you have non matching... say a MIL reticle with MOA adjustments... math then has to come into play whenever you dial an adjustment in.

MIL is in 10ths... MOA in quarters. My scopes have large points at the mil and half points in between... so if i miss, I can easily see where the bullet hit and make a quick and easy adjustment... or my spotter can call it and i can make a quick adjustment. It's faster and can be coarser adjustments or tighter... you can take your pick.