Fixed power mil-dot for a beginner?

[bobgengeskahn]

Hello all,
I am starting research for an optic for my AR15 platform that I will be putting together in the near future (have all the parts, just need to find time to put it together). It has a 20" DPMS bull barrel 1/9 and will be free float with an A3 upper. I want to use this set up to learn to shoot on mil-dot scopes and to start from the basics. So I don't want to deal with all these variable power scopes and FFP v. SFP rigs; however there seems to be a shortage in the fixed power mil-dot department these days.

Since this will be mainly for learning on, I don't want to drop a whole ton of money on this optic, I'd rather save that for my carbine; so I'm trying to look in the ~$200 range (preferrably below). I have found this Bushnell recommended in a few places: http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tacti.../dp/B004NKY6DU but the power is a little higher than what I have been looking for. Ideally I'm thinking 6x, 7x, 8x range.

So does anyone have any recommendations for a beginner? Thanks!

[DirtyDave]

That bushnell 10x is a sweet beginner scope Mil reticle, Mil Turrets. MidwayUSA had them on sale for a while at $199.
I'm guessing that your intended use for this is not going to be shooting much inside 100yds, so the 10x should not be much of a problem

[SoCalXD]

Hmmm....
a MIL-MIL scope for under $200 huh?
That's kind of a tough one, unless you don't mind buying junk (NcStar,UAG,Barska,BSA,etc)

$300 will get you a good quality SWFA 6x42 or 10x42 (30mm tube, better 1/2-mil line reticle vs. oldschool Mil Dot) which would be the lowest end that I'd be comfortable suggesting for any life-safety use. don't forget, your going to have to spend $60+ for a halfway decent set or rings too!

I agree with DirtyDave on the choice of magnification... 10x will provide a much better practical accuracy and range estimation capability than lower magnifications, beyond 100 yards or so.

As a side note, the real MIL range estimation skills/skill building come into play shooting between 500-1000 yards, where a 72" tall target is only 4-2 MILs high, or a 36" upper torso target is 2-1 MILs high (which is where a higher magnification really helps with reading fractions of MILs!). MIL ranging under 500... the practical effective range of your rifle's cartridge/twist rate (IMO), is pretty darn easy and might not provide you with sufficient MIL training for the shooting skills you are seeking.

That said, here's a link to the SWFA SS Scopes:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-MRAD-Scopes-C4225.aspx

[ejhc11]

Hmmm....
a MIL-MIL scope for under $200 huh?
That's kind of a tough one, unless you don't mind buying junk.

What makes you think the Bushnell Elite 3200 or the new Elite scopes are junk scope? Those are very highly rated scopes and the best entry level long range scopes.

[Quinc]

Don't go higher then 6x unless you only plan on using it for the bench. I had the Bushnell 3200 10x, great scope for the money but you will be able to steady it when shooting off hand.

[Iloveguns]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/950843/bushnell-elite-3200-tactical-rifle-scope-10x-40mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte

Make sure to get it with Mil adjustments. This is the cheapest beginner scope I would ever recommend

[SoCalXD]

What makes you think the Bushnell Elite 3200 or the new Elite scopes are junk scope? Those are very highly rated scopes and the best entry level long range scopes.

I did not call the Bushnell junk. Touchy much? But... it is over $200 and, aren't they MOA turrets? (ah, I see that the new version comes with MIL-MIL... sweet!). Nothing wrong with the 3200 as a lower cost scope, but I prefer modified Mil reticle (with at least 1/2 MIL marks), 30mm tubes, and parallax adjustment, which is why I suggested the SWFA line of fixed scopes, if he can come up with the extra $75 over the price of the 3200. YMMV

[bobgengeskahn]

Thanks for all the replies so far!

I will probably be shooting mostly from a bench, however when I have the chance to take long shots (over 100) I'll be out in the woods somewhere since the longest range within a reasonable drive for me is only 100 yards. So I'm planning to put a Harris on it at some point as well.

What is the general opinion on illuminated scopes here? They have always seemed a little hokey to me, I've used them before on airguns and airsoft, but never really considered them for serious shooting before. (other than aimpoint, eotech etc. of course)

[SoCalXD]

What is the general opinion on illuminated scopes here?

Meh!

Might be useful for dusk/dawn hunting, but it's the last item on my list of concerns for a long range mil-mil scope (a lot of them bleed light, which is a no-go for tactical use due to the prevalence of night vision). I find myself using just the black reticle at the range anyway.

[bobgengeskahn]

Oooooh, I just found this: http://images1.opticsplanet.com/pdf/...ope-rebate.pdf $75 off Bushnell Elite through the end of the month... I might have to go start digging through couch cushions lol

[ejhc11]

I did not call the Bushnell junk. Touchy much? But... it is over $200 and, aren't they MOA turrets? (ah, I see that the new version comes with MIL-MIL... sweet!). Nothing wrong with the 3200 as a lower cost scope, but I prefer modified Mil reticle (with at least 1/2 MIL marks), 30mm tubes, and parallax adjustment, which is why I suggested the SWFA line of fixed scopes, if he can come up with the extra $75 over the price of the 3200. YMMV

Sorry - misunderstood...

[FMJBT]

What is the general opinion on illuminated scopes here? They have always seemed a little hokey to me, I've used them before on airguns and airsoft, but never really considered them for serious shooting before. (other than aimpoint, eotech etc. of course)

Here's my take on illuminated reticles. On a low power variable with a CQB style reticle (doughnut or center dot), illumination is great for use on the lowest magnification as long as it's bright enough to be daylight visible. A 1-4X or 1-6X scope with daylight visible illumination can be used almost as effectively as a non-magnified red dot for rapid target engagement at close range.

With higher magnification, it's better to have illumination that is fairly dim, if at all. Low levels of illumination can be useful for shooting in low light to help distinguish the reticle from a dark background. Slightly higher levels of illumnation can be used if using the daylight scope along with a NV device in front of it like the ATN PS22 or PS40. The red illumination helps define the reticle against the green background. Not too many guys are running NV in front of their daylight optics though, so for probably 99% of shooters in CA an illuminated reticle on anything bigger than 1-_X scope will be kind of useless.

[HK Dave]

Save your pennies and get an SWFA 10x.. you'll be glad you did.

CLICK HERE, this is what you want.

Trust me, you'll be glad you did.

Great reticle, great glass for the price point. Mil adjustments to match up with your mil-quad reticle. Lifetime warranty. Tested for 50cal.