NIGHTFORCE VS. PREMIER

[707electrician]

First I've heard of problems with the premiers

[Orkan]

First I've heard of problems with the premiers

If you talk to people that put thousands of rounds per year down range, you'll start to learn what really works, and what doesn't. Thus far, I've heard of more premier's going down than I care to remember.

Most people don't use their scopes nearly enough to make an informed statement on quality. Combine that with many forums censoring bad statements about products, and it can be very hard to get real information before spending $3,000.

Once the hensoldt 3-26 ships, premier will be a distant memory for me.

[cocorador]

I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.

+1.

I also have these brands mentioned. I still have them. Luckily, mine have nad zero issues. I can say though on one note, My Premier and S&B scopes, do seem to cut through mirage quite a bit better than the other scopes. I only noticed this recently when I was getting ready for a shooting session. If you want a no frills scope that works very very well, I think the Nightforce fits you. If you want a different reticule and little better optics, go Premier. But if you would like to talor make your own scope and have it almost the way you want it, USO is the way to go. Just to let you know, My SN- USO did cost over 3K with all the bells and whistles. Small and compact but it does fit my bill.

Either way you go, you'll be very happy with your purchase. I am with mine.

Good luck, hope this helps a little.

[BillyGoatMachine]

Thanks again guys for more input. My Nightforce F1 showed up at my Po box today. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. Looks like I made the right choice!

[ronas]

I'm late to this thread. I'm sure OP will be very happy with his choice.

I did want to point out that Premier did in the past have that parralex problem which result from people overtighting scope rings and probably combined with the stacking of tolerances which caused the parralex to fail. As I understand it that issue was addressed with a change in machine or something like that, not sure exactly.

I have both nightforce and premier scopes. I prefer Premier for reasons mentioned above and other advantages I find when using the Gen 2 reticle.

I like them so much I bought two 5-25x56 Premier Heritage scopes. I had an order in with Alex at Europtics for two S&B but cancelled it in favor of the premiers.

[Orkan]

I did want to point out that Premier did in the past have that parralex problem which result from people overtighting scope rings

Over-tightening scope rings my patoot. Everyone I know that has had problems with turrets/parallax used seekonk or wheeler torque wrenches set to the appropriate spec to torque their rings.

Does over-torquing rings cause an elevation turret to wobble around resulting in a .3-.5 mil reticle movement?

That does seem like premier's M.O. though. If something breaks, blame it on the user. If they've fixed it now... great. What about the last 3 years where me and other guys have been forking over $2550-$3000 for scopes that fail at an alarming rate? They'll need several more years of low return rates before I ever give them a chance at my money again.

[707electrician]

Is it just you and people you know that have had problems? I can't find any other complaints about premier on the web

[Orkan]

Is it just you and people you know that have had problems? I can't find any other complaints about premier on the web

You must not be looking very hard. People complaining of their premier not working can be found ALL OVER the web. 10 second google search turned up this, among many many others.

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3230300#Post3230324

I run my scopes hard. ALL have failed me at some point, in some way. So it really drives home what is important. I want a company that's going to step up in front of it and make it right when things fail. USO can't even be compared to premier in that way.

I won't even begin to get into the ****storm of nightmarish PR incidents that have surrounded chris thomas and premier heritage scopes since their inception.

Look, I still own a premier, and like it when it works. However, as soon as something more capable comes along, I'll sell it at a $500 loss without even thinking about it. The new hensoldt for instance, will make owning a premier completely pointless.

The group I shoot with has more money in optics combined than most people spend on their house. That's a hell of a large sample size. While a website like snipershide has a large collection of doorknobs, there are a ton of competition shooters there. Among them you'll find a great many that will never ever own another premier product. You won't have to look very hard to find them.

[GoBig]

Orkan...your website, primalrights.com is a good one! I also like your website sponsors liberty optics and US Optics...too!

Nice Interview with the CEO of US Optics!

[Orkan]

Thanks.

Yes, its quite common that I'll approach companies I believe in, to see if they'd like to advertise. I don't allow companies that I don't believe in to advertise with me.