Noob scope questions

[Nuuze]

If you had the choice between these three what would you choose and why for a .223 precision rifle? Just reading up and learning scopes on these brands/models from threads I came across.

-Leupold Mark 4-4.5-14x50MM LR/T M1 Illuminated $1,085.00

-Leupold Mark 4-6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 $1,124.99

-IOR Valdada 4-14x50 $896

-Super Sniper 10x42 $399

And what are the benifits of an illuminated one and one without.

Would any of these be too much for 100-300 max 500 yards? If so, what would be the max range for them?

What about the cheaper ones like the Nikon buckmaster and Bushnell Banner 3-9's that are fairly cheap in price?

Thanks!

[Spdjunkie]

I'll post my "opinion/feedback" below your questions

If you had the choice between these three what would you choose and why for a .223 precision rifle? Just reading up and learning scopes on these brands/models from threads I came across.

- Would help if you could post what rifle/rig you had in mind chambered for .223, Barrel length, Ammo-HandLoad, Twist 1:?, type.
- What is the purpose(s) for this particular rifle
- What realistic ranges will you be shooting this rifle at & what distance most often?
- What is your budget?
- Anything particular you are looking for in these scopes?

-Leupold Mark 4-4.5-14x50MM LR/T M1 Illuminated $1,085.00
IMHO - Great Scope ALL Around, Have had several & sold several, just always seem to go back to it once I get behind one - Again, I really like this scope. The magnification is great for powering down, mag., for wider FOV/Coverage for shooting movers or multiple targets quick. The 14x High Magnification I can spot my holes at 100 no problem, sometimes less. But, 14x also makes it easy for precision/paper work, only time I like paper work. And I feel it isnt over powered low/high. Have shoot with it from 25 yrds to 950 yrds & at 950 I could spot my hits on a 20" wide half steel silo.
- So, IMHO - I'd say NO to anyone that asked me if I was under glassed for anything a .308 could do.
- Also, Leopold stands by there product, as many other High end scope manuf. do.
- My local favorite being US Optics - Great Folks making TOP NOTCH Scopes

-Leupold Mark 4-6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 $1,124.99
IMHO - My next favorite of the four selected. Great Scope, Especially in FFP, but depends on what type of shooting you do. Have had a MK4 SFP MilDot & a FFP Gen-II with M1 elev/wind adj. This is a scope that is tuff to beat if you want higher than 14x magnification to 20x, no need for spotting scope with this one, thats variable with 1/4" Adj. Which I prefer, M1, not to fine, not to wide., just right ........till Leupold gets there $#!T straight & offers there MK4 line with matching adj. = 1/10cm/Mil-Rad. But thats another story. I just noticed I wasnt shooting past 14-16x before the heat, & after the mirage kicked in nothing past 14x. So, "To each his own"
- IMHO: If you can get either two above you GTG !!! More the Indian than the Bow

BUT, For the price of the Leupold(s) above you are Very Close to a NightForce NXS 3.5-15 or 5.5-22x50 [NXS come std. Illuminated] w/ IMHO - Better Glass, Better choice of Adj. options & Reticle options.

& of course for a little/alot depending on options on top of the above, the CREAM of the CROP @ USA Made = US OPTICS
* but, this is of course based on your scope budget $$$
* Built like a TANK
* Made to Order, The WAY YOU WANT
* Quality comes with a price. Again, "To each his own"

-IOR Valdada 4-14x50 $896
- Not much experience w/ IOR, except I had a IOR 2.5-10x40 FFP MP8 mounted on a Rem 700 LTR .308 Win, Thought it was good, but just needed a tad bit more magnification for my liking. The reticle was great at 10x for holds, but at anything 6x & below it lacked the heavy side posts on the cross hair for low mag. center reference, as the hash mark reticle got smaller/thinner it washed out the reticle on most dark targets I looked at. Making quick spot/aim shooting a tad more difficult. The illumination helped, but at low power only.

edit/add:
- Forgot to include that the IOR Glass is Very Crisp/Clear, Reticle is spot on, just needs heavier side/top posts, Adj. 1/10cm-MilRad was great as it matched the MP8 Reticle, but were under Caps. Didnt really matter as once you set you [ZERO] you just hold over for anything further & for wind. Scope was/seems to be built pretty solid from what I saw/used, but wish the adj. were a little more solid/crisp/louder; Knobs Exposed & Larger/Bigger on the model I had [Some New Models come with ext. Adj. Eleve/Wind Knobs.] Just convenient; Again, Heav(ier) Posts for FFP @ Low Mag.; Para.Side Focus;...............BUT !!! For the Price of around $800.00+/- you get All the BIG Boy options as FFP, Hash Mil Mark Reticle, Illumination, Mathing MILRAD/1:10cm Adj for Elev/Wind. = Cant Beat That [Reason I had it ]

-Super Sniper 10x42 $399
- Great scope that has got many people into Long Range Shooting, until they caught the "bug" for something variable, with higher mag. or this/that - it happens to all
- Most then use it as a back up scope. Many other manuf. have came along in this price range & below, some 30mm a couple 1" tubes. Will get you shooting, & can get you to start ranging using Mil-Dots for target range estimation & holds.
- IMHO: If your tight on $$$ & want a scope that can be mounted with 30mm rings without buying reducers & can flip for close to what you bought it for, its a great scope to get you shooting.... thats of course till you UPgrade.........Being Trigger Time is KEY before Bling.
* Maybe you want it all now, buy/cry once & shoot forward. As you also included the above scopes costing several hundred to a thousand+, so with that said, some folks like to do it first & not worry about an upgrade.

And what are the benifits of an illuminated one and one without.
- Better to have and not need than need and not have.
* Again if you can afford it, get it. You may not use it often, but the times you do, you'll be glad you had it.

Would any of these be too much for 100-300 max 500 yards? What would be the max range for them?
Max range of any rifles would have to do with variables: caliber, environmental setting, ammo/handload, bullet BC/weight....etc. So, more the shooter & variables than magnification. Any will do above or below, the only thing that will make you a better shot/shooter is time that comes from A LOT of "QUALITY" Trigger Time. Need to take my own advise....itchy finger

What about the cheaper ones like the Nikon buckmaster and Bushnell Banner 3-9's that are fairly cheap in price?
- Have had experience/owned a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 Side Focus Mil Dot & IMHO - This is a GREAT Scope for the money, Mil Dot Reticle, Side Para Adj./Focus, Great Clear/Crisp Glass thats besides the cost. Great Scope. The 6-18 model just beware that it has 1/8" adj. & may not also have the elev. adj. range needed for extended distances.
- Never owned a Bushnell.

Thanks!

Sorry for the rant - long message & subjects format a mess. Its late

[Prc329]

I have played with the Leupold scopes and to be honest I do not think they are any where in the same league as the IOR. The Super sniper is a good starter scope but should be irrelevant if you are looking at $800+ scopes.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=62743&

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=75035&

My experience with the IOR scopes. If you go with an IOR call scott at www.libertyoptics.com He has really good prices on the scope you are looking at.

[Nuuze]

Thanks Spdjunkie! Lots of great info!

I'm considering an AR setup from Rock River Arms.

So far I like the Predator Pursuit: http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-de...TOKEN=95343410

There's also the Varmint that is priced about the same price: http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-de...TOKEN=95343410.

20", 1/8 twist, I never used any special loads besides over the shelf Winchester, Remington, etc. will probably need help with that also.

The rifle will be mainly a range gun. I recently started/got into/collecting rifles/AR's therefor call myself a noob asking my questions to all you great folks at CG's so I don't end up wasting a lot of money and time not getting it right the first time getting it right. I wanted to get into some precision shooting.

To start off with my nearest outdoor range is 100 yards. I would have to venture out to other ranges for further distances.

I love the AR look like similar CG'ers:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7789/img6313eu4.jpg

http://www.roll-pans.net/images/IMG_9278_s.jpg

Thanks!

[Nuuze]

Thanks for the info Prc329!

Who sells Millet DMS-1? I would like to look those up as well. I'm guessing it falls into the same price category as the SuperSniper?

Edit: I was able to search for it here but out of stock: http://www.bigrivertactical.com/cata...80/4081421.htm

[Prc329]

Midway USA has them as well.

[maxicon]

DMS-1 has been out of stock at most vendors for a while, but there are reports that they're about to be available again.

They had problems with fungus that caused visible marks on the lenses at the highest illumination settings in darkness. You'd never see it during normal use, but once you know what to look for, it's pretty obvious.

Millett has good customer support, and are replacing the fungal sights for customers who complain. Availability has been low since they had to stop production to fix the problem, and new production is going to replace the problem scopes.

When they're available, they go from about $210-250.

[Nuuze]

Here's more info on what I'm planning for rig/rifle I have in mind...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=867955#post867955

Thanks!

[tankerman]

Miilet is in Huntington Beach if you want to stop by. But I would not recommend any of their scopes if you are intersted in reliability.

[rksimple]

If you're realistically looking at scopes in the $800-1k price range, the IOR is a tough one to beat. Much better glass than the loopy. Leupold is pricing themselves out of the market, it seems. For the cost of some of the mk4's, a nightforce is not far behind, and its a significantly better scope. I'd much prefer the NF to a loopy.

[PistolPete75]

for the money in today's market. best scope in the market is the ior 3-18ffp scope. only downside is that it's not illuminated. you can do hold off/ hold off shooting, short range to long range shooting, good knobs with tons of elevation, and comes with rings.

super sniper. i don't recommend them anymore. it's okay to shoot for plinking, but that's about it. glass is descent, knobs are crappy. 10x fixed which is okay, but i prefer a variable. plus, i think they have quality issues. might not last longer than a couple thousand rounds if your lucky on a 30cal. for .223 no problem since it has little recoil.

[Nuuze]

As much as I want one of these scopes I may have to wait with the price of the rifle when priced with all the parts are currently at $1300'ish. That leaves me less than $700 for scope to stay in the 2K range for complete setup. That doesn't even include a case I forgot to add...

For the time being are there any cheaper alternatives for a good 100-300 yard 500 yard max scope?

I will be going to the Vallejo show this weekend to check things out.

[Prc329]

My honest no bull answer is to save another $200 to $300. As I have been told many times. You only cry once.

Or

Go with something like this Click here

[PistolPete75]

As much as I want one of these scopes I may have to wait with the price of the rifle when priced with all the parts are currently at $1300'ish. That leaves me less than $700 for scope to stay in the 2K range for complete setup. That doesn't even include a case I forgot to add...

For the time being are there any cheaper alternatives for a good 100-300 yard 500 yard max scope?

I will be going to the Vallejo show this weekend to check things out.

look at the busnell 3200 line, and look for a mildot recticle.

also check this scope out, Nikon Monarch Scope, 2.5-10x, 42mm, Matte Finish, Mildot Reticle. goes for around $350.

and you have the super sniper which would fit the bill, but i have my quirks with them.

[Nuuze]

for the money in today's market. best scope in the market is the ior 3-18ffp scope. only downside is that it's not illuminated. you can do hold off/ hold off shooting, short range to long range shooting, good knobs with tons of elevation, and comes with rings.

super sniper. i don't recommend them anymore. it's okay to shoot for plinking, but that's about it. glass is descent, knobs are crappy. 10x fixed which is okay, but i prefer a variable. plus, i think they have quality issues. might not last longer than a couple thousand rounds if your lucky on a 30cal. for .223 no problem since it has little recoil.

The 3-18 I found at Midway shows that it is illuminated:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=822680

How does this model compare to the IOR 4-14x 50mm? It's a little over $400 difference between the two.