Red Dot practicality ?

[novabrian]

How practical are these for the range?I.E. Burro Canyon etc.etc. I know they are mostly for CQC situations.Is it worth putting one on my AR?

[CAL.BAR]

Most RD's are very tough to see in bright sunlight and are really of the most use in CQB situations (i.e. less than 20 yards) after that, the dot is usually bigger than what you're shooting at and with no magnification, don't bring anything to the party that your iron sights don't already have.

The exception would be something like what I put on my HK93 which is the Leupold mark IV CQ/T scope which is a 1x3 which adjusts from 1 to 3 power and has a lighted combat ring type sight and also has the ring etched in the glass so you can see it in full daylight. Works great for 3x situations, but can be dialed back down to 0 mag so you can use it like a RD and keep both eyes open. (very pricey though - ($800-1K) not counting mounts and adapters.

however, does give you the best of both worlds.

[unamused]

with the brightness turned up on my eotech, ive never had a problem seeing it in daylight.

Obviously without a magnifier its not the best choice for long range, but then again, the ar iron sights were meant for ranges out to 200 yards (i think) and the red dot is definitely going to be better then just irons.

[Jicko]

Most RD's are very tough to see in bright sunlight and are really of the most use in CQB situations

What are you talking about!?!?!!??!?

What are the "most RD" do you have!?

Most, if not ALL, RD that i ever own are NOT very tough to see in bright sunlight (eg. Aimpoint, EOTech, Trijicon)....

(i.e. less than 20 yards) after that, the dot is usually bigger than what you're shooting at and with no magnification, don't bring anything to the party that your iron sights don't already have.

<20 yds.... you can just point and shoot... if you are doing "man-sized" target...

>20 yds... or even @100yds... or 200yds.... a "man-sized" target is still NOT smaller than the biggest dot... 4MOA? or 8MOA?

I think target acquisition speed is dramatically improves with even with a 1x red-dot sight... vs iron-sights....


Lastly, if you zero your red-dot @ 50yds.... your POI will be +/- 2.5" from 0-200(or 225)yds.... so, aim at COM at those distances and you should get your HIT.

[Barney Gumble]

Most RD's are very tough to see in bright sunlight and are really of the most use in CQB situations (i.e. less than 20 yards) after that, the dot is usually bigger than what you're shooting at and with no magnification, don't bring anything to the party that your iron sights don't already have.

There's pretty much nothing correct in this statement.

I think you may be thinking of illuminated reticles, such as what you'd see in a magnified scope, vs. red dot sights. A proper red dot sight such as an Aimpoint or Eotech will be easily visible in daylight.

Does an RDS give you an advantage inside 20 yards? Yes. Does it give you an advantage over irons past 20 yards? DEFINITELY. Aside from the fact that you can hit man-sized targets at 200 yards even with a 4MOA dot, you're forgetting that red dot sights don't require that you put your eye in a specific position, or to align the sights. So they're faster and can be used more effectively on the move or in situations where you can't get your eye right up to the rear sight (such as in urban prone, for example).

[BigAL]

Non magnified red dot sights are an excellent addition to an AR other other carbine that may be shot out to 200 yards or so. For shooting the absolute tightest groups at the range they may not be the best, but if you like to plink and shoot clays and other stuff I think you will like the speed they bring. You won't have trouble seeing the dot during the day. Even in direct sunlight I usually have my aimpoints 1 setting below max brightness. For more precision shooting you can turn the brightness down. The dot wont get smaller but your eye will perceive it as such. Also, you can look into getting a model with a smaller dot if you want the extra precision.

[Swiss]

How do you handle long range shooting with a red dot equipped rifle? If you have a flip up BUIS, those are not adjustable for elevation and are usually zeroed for 50 - 200yd. The red dots don't have any markers. What do you do if you want to engage a 400 yard target?

I temporarily put an Aimpoint M4S on my rifle, which has fixed LMT sights. The sights and red dot cowitnessed but the sight picture was very obstructed. The Killflash screen didn't help matters as I tried to get a bead using the irons.

Any gurus or servicemen have some tips on this?

[Barney Gumble]

How do you handle long range shooting with a red dot equipped rifle? If you have a flip up BUIS, those are not adjustable for elevation and are usually zeroed for 50 - 200yd. The red dots don't have any markers. What do you do if you want to engage a 400 yard target?

It would be hard to even know the range and get your holdovers correct without lots and lots of practice, and even then it's far enough that it's not going to be easy to see your target without magnification. So the answer is practice a lot at different ranges, and consider buying a magnifier or switching to a 1-4x scope.

I temporarily put an Aimpoint M4S on my rifle, which has fixed LMT sights. The sights and red dot cowitnessed but the sight picture was very obstructed. The Killflash screen didn't help matters as I tried to get a bead using the irons.

First of all cowitnessing just refers to what part of the optic (center or lower 1/3) you look through when you light up the irons. When you are sighting with the dot by itself you don't look through the irons.

Most mounts will give you lower 1/3 cowitness out of the box. Some are center cowitness but can be made lower 1/3 with a riser. Even with lower 1/3 you will always see the front sight a little bit but you get used to it quickly and eventually you don't even notice it.

[Swiss]

Thanks. What's a good 1-4x scope (ACOG model?) that can be used both ways?

My comment about the obstruction was regarding the fixed rear sight body obstructing much of my view through the red dot.

I think the two were centered, not lower 1/3.

It would be hard to even know the range and get your holdovers correct without lots and lots of practice, and even then it's far enough that it's not going to be easy to see your target without magnification. So the answer is practice a lot at different ranges, and consider buying a magnifier or switching to a 1-4x scope.



First of all cowitnessing just refers to what part of the optic (center or lower 1/3) you look through when you light up the irons. When you are sighting with the dot by itself you don't look through the irons.

Most mounts will give you lower 1/3 cowitness out of the box. Some are center cowitness but can be made lower 1/3 with a riser. Even with lower 1/3 you will always see the front sight a little bit but you get used to it quickly and eventually you don't even notice it.

[Barney Gumble]

Thanks. What's a good 1-4x scope (ACOG model?) that can be used both ways?

How much do you want to spend?
Inexpensive: Millet DMS
Moderately expensive: Meopta K-Dot, Burris XTR, Trijicon Accupoint
Expensive: USO SN-4, Elcan Spectre, S&B Short Dot

My comment about the obstruction was regarding the fixed rear sight body obstructing much of my view through the red dot.

Look over the top of the rear sight. You don't use them both at the same time. Otherwise what would be the point of the red dot sight?

[Swiss]

I think I figured out my problem - the model I used didn't have the riser installed that would put the irons in the lower 1/3.

Is there a particular online reseller that I should look at for buying optics?

[jchen76@gmail.com]

I think I figured out my problem - the model I used didn't have the riser installed that would put the irons in the lower 1/3.

Is there a particular online reseller that I should look at for buying optics?

http://www.samplelist.com/ - good prices, this is the trade in/store model website of www.swfa.com . Opticsplanet.com is also good when they specials and sales.

As for red dots. You get what you pay for. The more expensive red dots tend not to wash out, hold zeroes on high powered rifles, etc.

Owned, Trijicon reflex, Trijicon Mini red dot, older aimpoint, and sig red dot (konus clone).

The Trijicon mini red dot has been so far maintenance free. No washout due to variable transmission feature. The reflex will wash out unless you use the polarizing cap. The older aimpoint, ok, but have to crank to max setting. Sig red dot, same issue.

[upinflames2400]

I bought my eotech 517 from opticsplanet.com and it was a very reasonable price and fast shipping. There customer service is great too. I highly recommend them. I'm ordering a 3x mag with my tax return from there