Best back up iron sites?

[monstertodd]

What's up?

I recently purchased a Smith and Wesson M & P 15 without sites or optics. I have purchased an aimpoint M4 optic with a GG&G mount for the rifle. I'd like to get some back up iron sites for it. What is the general consensus on back up sites? What's good, what sucks? What's just ok? I'd like something that can flip up/down.

Thanks.

[probie]

Hi Todd,

I enjoy the Troy Industries BUIS. Although a few more dollars than the others on the market, I like the feel and the low profile design when folded down.

[sspen003]

Get ones that flip down. Its alot easier if you do when you get optics.

Troys are good
MI are good
Magpul are good if you like polymer

I run Matech's on mine. its what the military currently use os their BUIS. Its solid and sits low on the rail so you can use a bunch of different optics.
They are on sale in the parts and accessories forum for $43 bucks. Oh and they make it really eassy to adjust the height if you decide to use a 22 conv kit. Just a few clicks and you zeroed. If bought new I think they are around $80-$90

its really whatever you prefer though. Everyones eyes are different.

hope this helped and goodluck

[Barney Gumble]

Top of the line for flip-up would probably be Troy.

Best bang for the buck for flip-up would be Magpul MBUS.

Fixed BUIS are cool too...if your optic fails just move to the buis, nothing to flip up. Lots of options for these...LMT, Larue, Daniel Defense, YHM, RRA, etc.

[oaklander]

I just got one of these:

[Super Spy]

I have a rear flip up from ARMS. Works great.

[tacticalcity]

In my opinion the best option for a non-magnified and battery powered optic (which you have) is a fixed and adjustable back-up sight.

Co-witnessing is important with red dot sights. Because batteries die...and you might be in the middle of a firefight when they do. You may not have time to flip up a collapsed rear sight and most definitely will not have time to install new batteries. And while it is possible to scrape by with just a front sight...why risk it if you don't have to? It is best to always have that rear sight in the lower portion of your sight picture window just in case you need to revert to irons.

Lots of brands offer fixed rear sights. Not all offer elevation adjustments. Avoid MAKO and GMG, they are not made from very good materials.

The best of the fully adjustable bread is LMT. This is what I own. It is used on the CQBR rifle used by Special Operations.

Other brands that make fixed rear sights are DPMS, YHM, MIDWEST INDUSTRIES and TROY. I am sure there are many others. Not sure which brands other than LMT and DPMS are fully adjustable. LMT offers a shorter footprint (offers more room for your optics) than the DPMS version.

Just my $0.02.

If your heart is set on a flip-up rear sight my favorites are the Troy sights. They are extremely low profile and you can get them with night-sights pre-installed. Though I often go with KAC sights in order to get an authentic replica of a specific government issue rifle.

That said, Midwest Industries, GG&G, Matech are all great sights as well. Avoid Magpul MBUS only because they tend to snap in half during installation or if you drop something on them...man did that suck! I cannot stand ARMS sights as they are very outdated in terms of operation compared to say Troy and because the have treated me very poorly in the past on more than one occasion. I had so many problems with ARMS I stopped offering them for sale...and it takes a lot for me to completely abandon a well selling brand on principle...I like money as much as the next guy. It just wasn't worth it anymore.

[Barney Gumble]

I'll back up tacticalcity regarding ARMS. Rather than improving their dated products, they've decided to grow their revenue by suing their competitors (who make better products). They also have a track record of intimidating vendors. I will not buy another ARMS product.

[CSTactical]

TROY, MI, ARMS, GG&G are some of the best.

Mike @ CST

[OneKyards]

Based on personal experience and use (Folding):

Troy Industries BUIS and HK Style Front Sight
GG&G BUIS and Flip-Up Rail Mount

Used by Military and very good: Matech and Knights Armament

In my opinion, everything else is fixed (too high on rail) and cheapy built. Buy the best!

If you have a S&W w/ Gas Block Rail for front sight, DO NOT Buy the Plastic MagPul MBUS Sights. The Front will melt like M&M's. Take that from my foolish friend who wanted to save a $100 but ended up spending $250.

[pennys dad]

i use all LMT front post and rear cut down

[tomd1584]

if you want to run a fixed rear sight, look into the Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight. Its light and has the A1 adjustments so no knob to get snagged on.

For $59 its a very good value. I run this behind a aimpoint micro H-1 and personally like the fixed rear sight.

-Tom

[maxicon]

Here's my standard post on choosing a flip-up BUIS. Since you're going with a red dot, the info on fitting under a scope doesn't matter, but if you might go magnified later, getting a low-profile BUIS leaves your options open.


---------------------

Are you going to mount a magnified optic? If so, you need to consider whether the BUIS will fit under the scope and mount combo - some mounts (like the Armalite) are very low, and others (like the M1Sales) are quite high.

If it's for a red dot/Eotech style, there's a lot more flexibility.

For a magnified scope, you'll need a flip-up BUIS. For a non magnified optic, you can use a fixed sight as well, which is generally sturdier, but obscures part of your field of view.

A few things to consider when choosing rear flip-up BUIS, depending on if it's going to be a range gun or a SHTF gun:

- Will it be used for precision or long-range shooting? A small aperture is helpful for this. If the use is both close-up and long-range, a dual-aperture sight is useful.
- If it's multi-aperture, which one is deployed when it flips? Some flip with the large aperture deployed, others with the small. If you're not in a hurry, this won't matter, but some people care.
- If multi-aperture, do the apertures deploy in the same plane? Some deploy with an elevation shift to account for the range differences, others use the same zero for both apertures.
- If multi-aperture, how hard are the apertures to switch? It it likely to get bumped where it's between apertures?
- Do you want the windage knob easy to adjust or shielded to prevent accidental adjustments? ARMS are exposed and easy, Troy is shielded.
- Does it have elevation adjustments? Some do (like the Wilson Combat, KAC 600M, and Matech), most don't.
- How easy is it to deploy or adjust if your hands are muddy or gloved? Some, like the ARMS 40, have a latch holding it down that has to be flipped. Others, like the Troy, flip up without unlocking anything.
- Does it latch in the up position, the down position, or both?
- Is it spring loaded, like the Matech or ARMS, or not, like the YHM-9680? Spring loaded will pop back into position if bumped, while non will stay partially deployed if bumped from the unlocked position.
- How protected is it from damage, both down and deployed?
- How robust is the detent mechanism? The Matech will wear over time and become easier to deploy (and eventually won't lock). For many, this doesn't matter, as their BUIS aren't used often.
- How many slots does it cover? This is important if you need to conserve rail space. The Matech and MBUS cover 2, while many others only cover 1.
- Does it get in the way of the charging handle? Some people mount the MBUS a slot ahead of the first slot to avoid this, which uses up even more rail space and changes the MOA/click slightly.
- Is it made of plastic or metal, and is this important to you?

Figure out which of these are important to you and what capabilities you want, and it will narrow down the choices quite a lot.


Here's how to figure out if it will fit under your scope and mount.

- Measure the scope's eyepiece diameter, with flip caps if you're going to use them. Butler Creek usually adds about 0.1" to the diameter. If the scope's going far enough back so the eyepiece isn't over the BUIS, measure the diameter where it is over the BUIS.
- Divide that by 2.
- Subtract that from the centerline height of your mount or rings.
This gives the maximum height BUIS that will fit under that scope/mount combo. Some BUIS have a higher knob or adjustment on the side, and some scopes will clear at the center, but hit off to the side. It's hard to tell if this will be a problem without trying it out.

For example, my Leupold VX1 4-12x40 eyepiece diameter is 1.7" with flip caps - divided by 2 gives 0.85". Mounting it in a 1" LaRue LT-104, which has a 1.41" centerline, would leave (1.41-0.85) = 0.56 as the tallest BUIS that would fit. As you can see from the list below, that leaves out many. This is one reason the Troy BUIS is so popular.

Here are some popular BUIS heights:

ARMS 40 - 0.95" folded (mine is 1.00" even)
YHM-9680 - 0.84" to the top of the windage knob, 0.74" to the top of the sight body
Matech - 0.75" folded at the elevation adjustment, off to the side, 0.6" closer to center
MI ERS - 0.75" folded
GG&G MAD - 0.625" folded
Magpul MBUS - 0.625" folded
ARMS 40L - 0.61" folded (mine is 0.59")
Troy - 0.460" folded
MI MCTAR-SPLP - 0.438" folded
YHM QDS - 0.435" folded
KAC 300m - 0.315" folded

[aplinker]

KAC 600m Micro

[thmpr]

KAC Period...