3-gun scope recommendation

[FluorideInMyWater]

Have you shot a 3 Gun match? Have you been to one? If so, you would know 90% of your shots are less than 100 yards. On a few stages we will shoot out to 300 yards. I shot an Eotech with no magnification and did well, because I killed it on the close in stages. 1x6 is plenty.

no. i've never been to a match. i'm a newbie. i've been collecting and shooting m1-garands, but never AR's. i did watch matches on youtube and on a few matches they had to reach out to 600 yards, but that probably is not the norm. so yeah, probably 1-8x is overkill.

i'm just assembling my 3 guns. have my pistol, my shotgun, which i'm modifying, and a stag 3-gun elite rifle. just trying to get it all together. i'm in las vegas and it's been way too hot this year to go out to ranges (was over 110 for 5 months) and is still over 100 every day. so i've just been limited to shooting my pistol, a modified HK P30L with a greygun trigger reset kit i installed. looking at the walther ppq m2 q match, but my budget is going to be exhausted after this scope.

https://www.stagarms.com/stag-15/stag-15-firearms/stag-15-rifles/stag-15-3gun-elite/

[HKAllTheThings]

$600. not bad. i know this might be superficial but i like the BDC2 or 3 reticles. this one just seems to be lacking, but i speak from absolute NON-EXPERIECE! LOL

The Vortex Razor 1-6 is very popular because it has a simple reticle and a bright center dot. That's really what you need when you're shooting rifle matches. So, their cheaper PST line has the same reticle and bright center dot. The glass isn't as good but still really good.

Their cheaper Strike Eagle lines don't have bright center dots so they have to make the reticles larger.

[FluorideInMyWater]

The Vortex Razor 1-6 is very popular because it has a simple reticle and a bright center dot. That's really what you need when you're shooting rifle matches. So, their cheaper PST line has the same reticle and bright center dot. The glass isn't as good but still really good.

Their cheaper Strike Eagle lines don't have bright center dots so they have to make the reticles larger.

ah. interesting. but it's like $1300 i think. and i hear the glass is phenominal.

[MarikinaMan]

$600. not bad. i know this might be superficial but i like the BDC2 or 3 reticles. this one just seems to be lacking, but i speak from absolute NON-EXPERIECE! LOL

It would be tremendously good fortune if a BDC reticle matched you’re gun.

As long as the scope has a decent reticle, it’s very easy to note how many Milliradians or MOA it’ll need for various ranges.

In competition, you can know the range of a target and hence prepare. In a practical scenario, you will need to range targets. The BDC may actually be a crutch and a drawback depending design.

[theLBC]

have you checked out the new sig tango6t?

[HKAllTheThings]

ah. interesting. but it's like $1300 i think. and i hear the glass is phenominal.

Yes, it's the closest to 1X red dot performance without spending $2K or more.

[sbo80]

do you know matches you'll be going to have stages that shoot that far? Where I go there's never anything past 300. And though I have a 1-6, I rarely dial it past 3x. I find that due the moving and the shooting positions (and sometimes unsupported) that using full zoom is actually slower. It's hard to find the target and harder to steady when you're breathing hard. And a lot of the time if the target is 200 or less I just leave it at the 1x.

[k1dude]

Whatever you choose, make sure it has BRIGHT daylight illumination for 3-gun. Many LPVO's out there don't get bright enough when your targets are up close and fast on 1 power. Many also have a tiny center dot rather than a bigger reticle like a circle dot or horseshoe dot. You want big and bright when it's fast and furious.

I'm surprised Stag is selling an 18" barrel on a 3-gun rifle. As Taran Butler once said about 5 years ago, "no one uses 18" barrels in 3-gun anymore." A 14.5" or 16" handles much faster and easily reaches out to any distance you'll see at any 3-gun match.

An HK P30L also isn't ideal. 15 rounds in your mag puts you at a severe disadvantage. That's 2 to 4 rounds less than most stock mags on guns other people are running. Reloads are time killers. The fewer reloads you need to do, the better. I don't know if anyone makes mag extensions for the P30L, but you'll need them. Your mag with an extension should hold at least 22 rounds. Put a fiber optic front sight on it as well. DA/SA isn't ideal either unless you train enough to overcome the difference in trigger pull.

You probably should have gone to a few matches and took note of what the better competitors were shooting, and asked them a bunch of questions before buying any of your equipment.

You can start out using whatever equipment you have. But over time you'll likely switch stuff out. You don't want your equipment holding you back.

Good luck and have fun.

[FluorideInMyWater]

Whatever you choose, make sure it has BRIGHT daylight illumination for 3-gun. Many LPVO's out there don't get bright enough when your targets are up close and fast on 1 power. Many also have a tiny center dot rather than a bigger reticle like a circle dot or horseshoe dot. You want big and bright when it's fast and furious.

I'm surprised Stag is selling an 18" barrel on a 3-gun rifle. As Taran Butler once said about 5 years ago, "no one uses 18" barrels in 3-gun anymore." A 14.5" or 16" handles much faster and easily reaches out to any distance you'll see at any 3-gun match.

An HK P30L also isn't ideal. 15 rounds in your mag puts you at a severe disadvantage. That's 2 to 4 rounds less than most stock mags on guns other people are running. Reloads are time killers. The fewer reloads you need to do, the better. I don't know if anyone makes mag extensions for the P30L, but you'll need them. Your mag with an extension should hold at least 22 rounds. Put a fiber optic front sight on it as well. DA/SA isn't ideal either unless you train enough to overcome the difference in trigger pull.

You probably should have gone to a few matches and took note of what the better competitors were shooting, and asked them a bunch of questions before buying any of your equipment.

You can start out using whatever equipment you have. But over time you'll likely switch stuff out. You don't want your equipment holding you back.

Good luck and have fun.

when i picked up the stag for the first time it felt super heavy so i got a 16" tactical upper from them that is 1.2lbs lighter and more manueverable, so that is done. i have a binelli m2 that i'm modifying. opening up the loading port and putting in an extended carrier, got my Briley's +8 carbon fiber mag-tube today in the mail, and i'm looking at the Walther PPQ match for an alternative pistol to the HK. i got the HK's as investments knowing the price was going to soar....and they did, so i can sell them for double now. i got the stag b/c i'm a lefty. didn't know the barrel was gonna add so much more weight and be so cumbersome, but i can use it for other things. i got a "like new" Lefty benelli M2 for $600 + $400 worth of free ammo and other accessories came with it (it was on consignment!....lucky find!) i'm modifying that like Teran Tactical and Briley's does. learned how to do it all on you tube. i went to mechanic school and autobody school when i was 18 (to 22yrs), so i have enough skills to do this myself. as far as the pistol, like i said, i'm looking at the walther ppq match pistol. i wish the barrel was longer. maybe i'll get a glock 34 and do some custom work to it or leave as-is for now. the HK does shoot a lot better after installing the greyguns reset upgrade.
so all in all, i should be ok with my equipment. i just need this scope to finish it all up.

[k1dude]

when i picked up the stag for the first time it felt super heavy so i got a 16" tactical upper from them that is 1.2lbs lighter and more manueverable, so that is done. i have a binelli m2 that i'm modifying. opening up the loading port and putting in an extended carrier, got my Briley's +8 carbon fiber mag-tube today in the mail, and i'm looking at the Walther PPQ match for an alternative pistol to the HK. i got the HK's as investments knowing the price was going to soar....and they did, so i can sell them for double now. i got the stag b/c i'm a lefty. didn't know the barrel was gonna add so much more weight and be so cumbersome, but i can use it for other things. i got a "like new" Lefty benelli M2 for $600 + $400 worth of free ammo and other accessories came with it (it was on consignment!....lucky find!) i'm modifying that like Teran Tactical and Briley's does. learned how to do it all on you tube. i went to mechanic school and autobody school when i was 18 (to 22yrs), so i have enough skills to do this myself. as far as the pistol, like i said, i'm looking at the walther ppq match pistol. i wish the barrel was longer. maybe i'll get a glock 34 and do some custom work to it or leave as-is for now. the HK does shoot a lot better after installing the greyguns reset upgrade.
so all in all, i should be ok with my equipment. i just need this scope to finish it all up.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. But I don't think the Walther PPQ Q5 Match is that much better than your HK. Yes, you don't have the SA/DA problem anymore, but your rounds are still limited to 15. There's not many aftermarket parts available for it either. I like your idea of a Glock 34 better. It's cheap, reliable, and there's boatloads of inexpensive aftermarket parts and upgrades for it.

Of course I'm making the assumption you have Freedom Week mags for all these weapons. If not, at least be ready for Freedom Week II if it should happen.

[FluorideInMyWater]

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. But I don't think the Walther PPQ Q5 Match is that much better than your HK. Yes, you don't have the SA/DA problem anymore, but your rounds are still limited to 15. There's not many aftermarket parts available for it either. I like your idea of a Glock 34 better. It's cheap, reliable, and there's boatloads of inexpensive aftermarket parts and upgrades for it.

Of course I'm making the assumption you have Freedom Week mags for all these weapons. If not, at least be ready for Freedom Week II if it should happen.

Freedom week mags? I have genuine 17-round mags that fit flush and can ne modified to 20+
I have 30 roind 556 magpul mags for the AR
I just got a Briley +8 carbon fiber mag tube tjat gives me a total capacity of 12 rounds.

So still, i need the scope or the AR is worthless. I could do iron sights but my eyes arent that great. I turned 50 and the Nevada departmemt of "Physical-agility & Wellbeing" raised my premiums on fantastic eyesight, energy, unlimited-testosterone,, and painless-workouts, so all of this is out-of-pocket and cuts into my gun budget.
Yeah, watched about 12 more video comparisons on the walther q5 and the glock 34. I just have to figure out if i'm going gen 5 or gen 3. I believe i read that there are more springs and more things you can adjust on the gen 3. I don't really want MOS. I rather permanently attach it to the slide. If i meed to change scopes i'll just spot weld the holes and refinish that area and then tap holes forn The new one.
Teran Butler uses the gen3 for his combat master pistol, but only because of the scallop cut on the mag release. But i can still do lost of the same modifocations. TiN barrel and other parts I'd jabe to send out ;but im sending my benelli bolt carrier out.....heck, maybe even the BCG on my AR.....

[NorCalRefuge]

You might want to consider the FFP version of the Primary Arms (or any LPVO for that matter).

Means your BDC dots are accurate at any magnification. SFP are only zeroed at a specific power, usually the max power of the scope. So that means BDC only being useful at 6x on a 1-6x scope, etc.

FFP is a lot more expensive, but means you could run your 1-8x at 6x or 4x or whatever the situation requires, and know your BDC dots are G2G. I think it's less visual clutter too at 1x since the reticle grows/shrinks with the zoom, and at 1x you basically just have a red dot.

The Primary Arms ACSS Reticle is the hot thing right now. So hot, that Trijicon licensed it for ACOG's instead of coming up with their own version. It's definitely a well thought-out reticle IMHO.

[sigstroker]

You could also go with a fixed prism like a 3x or 5x Primary arms or an ACOG and then do the diagonal mount with a reflex like an RMR for close shots. Does anyone do that anymore?

[HKAllTheThings]

You might want to consider the FFP version of the Primary Arms (or any LPVO for that matter).

Means your BDC dots are accurate at any magnification. SFP are only zeroed at a specific power, usually the max power of the scope. So that means BDC only being useful at 6x on a 1-6x scope, etc.

FFP is a lot more expensive, but means you could run your 1-8x at 6x or 4x or whatever the situation requires, and know your BDC dots are G2G. I think it's less visual clutter too at 1x since the reticle grows/shrinks with the zoom, and at 1x you basically just have a red dot.

The Primary Arms ACSS Reticle is the hot thing right now. So hot, that Trijicon licensed it for ACOG's instead of coming up with their own version. It's definitely a well thought-out reticle IMHO.

You really only need FFP when the top end is 10X or more.

You could also go with a fixed prism like a 3x or 5x Primary arms or an ACOG and then do the diagonal mount with a reflex like an RMR for close shots. Does anyone do that anymore?

Open shooters?

[NorCalRefuge]

You really only need FFP when the top end is 10X or more.

There's a difference between what you need and what you want. All you need to shoot 600 yards all day is a red dot - but you probably don't want to.

OP said they were likely to run a 8x at 6x most of the time, making the BDC dots completely useless in most cases.

Maybe you don't need BDC for most shots... maybe you do, dunno. But you're buying a scope that's zeroed for a specific magnification and then not running it at that magnification seems like a waste unless it's FFP and you can shoot accurately at any magnification.

The price difference between the FFP and SFP Primary Arms 1-6x and 1-8x is about $100. Worth it? That's up to you.