Optics for a do everything AR?

[Texas Boy]

Welcome to the new economy - I'm trying to make my AR play as wide a role as possible - from running through a tactical carbine course to longer range shooting (300m, 600m, ?). It is a 16" barrel w/ 1:7 twist - so it should do OK at longer ranges with 77gr Sierra's or similar, and still be fine w/ 55gr M193 for CQB type shooting.

The question of course is optic. Currently I have an AIMPOINT M3 2MOA mounted on a LaRue LT129 mount. For CQB type shooting this is great - but the question is how best to extend the range. One obvious option is to use the Aimpoint 3x magnifier - possibly on LaRue's flip out mount (or simply remove it for CQB style shooting). Another option is to swap out the Aimpoint for a scope when I want to "range out". But I'd rather not have to worry about re-zeroing every time I swap optics.

So, how effective is a 3x mag on a 2MOA red dot at 300m? 600m? Further?
How well do LaRue QD mounts hold zero after removal and remount on a red dot? on a scope? Are there other options I should consider?

Thanks!
Mark

[Ishoot]

I have that exact setup. (Aimpoint M3 and 3X magnifier on the Larue flip mount) While it's fairly effective at 300M, (not sure at 600m, haven't tried it yet.) it's a little cumbersome for CQB. Just added weight to swing around. Might opt for the quick release mount for the magnifier next time. Oh, and the Larue QD mounts hold zero just fine, at least on the Aimpoints. Hope that helps.

[SuperSet]

The ML3+3X magnifier is as close as you're going to get to do-it-all solution on the AR platform for 0-400y. You're really pushing it when you say that you want to shoot out to 600y with it though. I'd pick up a bolt gun with good glass if I anticipate shooting out that far.

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

Tag.

[FMJBT]

I wanted similar results when I went shopping for optics on my 16" middy. I ended up trying out a Vector Optics 1.75-6X32 Mil Dot scope. Initially I wanted to use it just to see if I liked the magnification range. It's a cheap scope, I intended to swap it out later for something a bit higher end. So far though, I haven't seen the need to upgrade from this one. The magnification range is suitable for everything from near point blank out to the max range of 780 yards that I've shot it at. Adjustments track well, and it holds zero. It's not a precision rifle at +500 yards by any means, but it will get rounds on target.

[4thSeal]

Night Force 1-4x Mil Clicks / Mildot Ret... near or far it wont matter

[Texas Boy]

The Night Force 1-4x Mildot looks interesting....wonder how it compares to an Aimpoint for CQB? Then again, for the price of the NF, I could buy a nice Leupold mill dot and swap optics depending on task....but there is something very pleasing about a single optic that spans the gap.

[Barney Gumble]

Aimpoint for CQB.

A 1-4x or 2-8x or 3-9x scope for medium distance. You'll get a real reticle to help you estimate distances, which you'll never have on an aimpoint with a 3x.

Both on Larue mounts, swap out as needed.

[kato4moto]

The Millett DMS-1 is a 1-4X 28mm scope that might fill the budget role for your requirements. At 1X, you can keep both eyes open for CQB scenarios. Then you can dial up to 4X for longer shots. The "dot in a donut" reticle is pretty quick to acquire, and you can do some range estimation with it, though it's not as quick and easy as a mil-dot or similar reticle. Should be able to find them for under $250, then add another $100 at least for rings or a mount.

[pennys dad]

I been hearing alot about the Millet DMS and simiar size optics. I am checking on a Simmons and the Vector sounded real interesting, as well as the Millet.

[aplinker]

No optic is as fast as an Aimpoint/EOTech at short range and none of the EO/Aimpoint solutions are good for distance shooting/ranging as a dedicated scope. The only "exception" is the Elcan, but it has some reliability ?s remaining, is heavy, etc.

I think you'd need to spend some time thinking about holdovers and bullet drop when shooting with an aimpoint to 600m, even magnified.

A red-dot mounted on a scope is, perhaps, the best choice.

[Texas Boy]

A red-dot mounted on a scope is, perhaps, the best choice.

Good points. Reminds me of some rifles I've seen with a small red dot (like the T-1) mounted on a forearm side rail, and a scope on top. Requires an odd posture for CQB shooting, but does allow you to have the optimum optic for each situation without having to change the mount.

Given this is a "recreational" rifle (or at least I hope it stays that way), swapping the optic back and forth is acceptable - if the mount can really hold zero. I'm fairly confident that the Aimpoint on a LaRue mount won't zero shift when you take it off and put back on, but not so sure about a 10x mil dot scope. Anyone have experience with this?

[maxicon]

LaRue's got a good reputation for RTZ, but I've never seen any formal tests of it. You could assume better than 1/2 MOA, I'd guess, based on reports, which is more than good enough for 99% of shooting tasks.