Proctor Y notch sights

[riceman]

Anybody have experience with the Proctor Y notch sights?
I have the Dawson Precision on my Glock 34 and am thinking about giving these a try.

[Stumpfenhammer]

I've had them on my G17 for a month and about 1500 rounds. I like em. It does feel like I pick the dot up faster. I got them after taking a class with Frank, he's a confidence inspiring no BS dude. They are an improvement in both speed and group sizes over the Trijicons I had been shooting.

That said, I'm going to try out Dueck Defense sights on my G26, but the Proctors will stay on the G17...just can't help myself from tweaking https://dueckdefense.com/shop/firear...ht-for-glocks/

[Stumpfenhammer]

The Dueck rear notch and front sight are too wide for my liking. If you're a guy who shoots groups a lot you'd be better off with Proctor's square notch rear sight.

If you shoot action pistol or timed drills you'll probably enjoy the Proctor Y Notch. I have them on a 34 and took a class with him in 2014.

HopetonBrown:

Please help me understand what you wrote. You said the Dueck front sight is "too wide" but according to the product page they are a hair narrower than Frank's. Please clarify?

Dueck Defense Sights
Rear Notch .145
Front Sight .115

Proctor Sights
Rear Notch .100 & .125 wide
Front Sight .117

Also, I've read that some shooters like a wider rear notch for "better accuracy". Which your post would seem to contradict. Frank writes this on the product page: "The Square Notch is shallower than conventional rear notches allowing for less room for sight mis-alignment error." So that also contradicts what I've read in other places.

Logic tells me that a wider rear notch makes it easier/faster to find the front sight but would lead to less precise alignment between front and rear sights (because there's more open space to misalign in), and that a deeper notch would lead to less room for (left-to-right) sight alignment error. But those assumptions seem to be contradicted by Frank's words above as well as other things I've read here and there.

These aren't loaded questions, I don't have an answer and am hoping you do. If not, I may just buy Frank's square notch sights and test them alongside his Y-sights and the Dueck Defense. Which leads me to another question, will changing sights out damage the dovetail eventually? If so, when?

And yes, I like to shoot groups at distance. I'm trying to make up for the disadvantage California has foisted on me should I ever have to deal with a rifle carrying active shooter.

I shot the attached group today with Proctor Y-Sights:
10 rounds at 25-yards, timed fire
Gen3 G17 with stock barrel + Zev connector and spring kit
Freedom Munitions 124gr HP

The pasties are covering up the previous 10rd/25yd group I shot with Freedom Munitions 115-gr RN (I'm cheap that way). The RN is less accurate than the HP, but most of the accuracy difference is that I really, really focused down to the smallest point I could on the front sight.

I'm not going to lie, I was kind of stoked on that group. (1) because it showed me what difference (extreme) front sight focus can make, and (2) because it's 2" wide, which tells me that it's theoretically possible for me to shoot a 2" 10-shot, standing, two-handed group at 25-yards with a stock Glock barrel. As is, because of the fliers top and bottom, it measures 5.75".

I know I pulled one, but I think the other may be due to the fact that the "Y" in the sight makes it a little harder for me to (perfectly) align the tops of the front and rear sights.

I'm not a pistol guru, so feel free to comment. Thanks.[IMG][/IMG]

[Stumpfenhammer]

HopetonBrown: Thanks for the clarification. I trained with Frank in Alabama last year. The redneck Buddha...such a nice guy and so smooth in his shooting and moving.

I took Jeff Gonzalez's 3-day Level II pistol last year as well - I recommend it.

[Stumpfenhammer]

Jeff Gonzalez - Trident Concepts Combative Pistol II

Did you pass? What were his tests?

There were 18 students in the class and six of us passed. For context, at least 12 of the students were what you'd typically consider "advanced". I had some reoccurring equipment issues to deal with and was not expecting to pass, so that was a nice surprise.

The whole class is a standard. Jeff uses a target with a faint 8" circle center of mass, and a faint 4" circle on the face, so they disappear and leave you without a defined aiming point past 5-7 yards: http://www.letargets.com/content/tct...-version-6.asp

80% is the minimum standard, and your rounds must fall in those circles to count, and if you throw one round off the target and into the white, you probably won't pass. If you throw two, you are pretty much DQ'd. A fair portion of the class is shot from the 25-yard line. Most of it timed from the holster. It's 1,800 to 2,000 rounds over three days, and in order to pass you have to maintain 100% focus on every shot. I've been told that it is not uncommon for a student or two to not return from lunch on Day 2.

Mozambique, El Presidente, shooting on the move, all of these and some other drills were utilized. What makes it different from other classes is the pressure of having to meet the time and accuracy standard if you want to pass. That and Jeff is a top-notch instructor with significant operational experience.

I really enjoyed it. It was a challenge, made me a better shooter, and I would have enjoyed it even if I had not passed. In fact, I assumed I had not passed up until the class ended. Despite that, I made every shot count, because I was there to get better, and passing or not passing was not my main objective. But I could see how it could get into someone's head if they let it.

We didn't do any "high-speed" tactics so to say. It was fundamental weapon manipulation and marksmanship on the clock, sometimes man-on-man, sometimes man-on-Gonzales, but held to a very high standard, out to 25-yards, over and over and over again. It is not the class to go to if you need your ego stroked.

That said, our class seemed to be comprised wholly of good dudes who were passionate about shooting, so no whining was heard.

I've done a fair amount of tactics-based training, and I feel Jeff's class will allow me to more effectively apply those experiences. A friend who had trained with both Jeff Gonzalez and Frank Proctor told me that the perfect combo would be Jeff's class to develop the skill and focus to consistently make precision shots on-demand, followed by Frank's class to learn how to "let it do".

Now that I've done both, I would agree that they are complimentary.

[Stumpfenhammer]

Great review, thank you. And congrats on passing.

Thanks. FYI: I tried to get into Defoor's December 2016 class in Chino Hills but it was sold out.

[Atekhed]

Nice sights but I found the sight picture too "tight" for me. Shook them out in IDPA and a Pannone class but went back to Dawsons as I shoot better using them.

[Atekhed]

What front/rear widths on the Dawson's?

I have an older set of Dawson comps on my g34 which are .125 rear/.105 front and replaced the Proctor's on my g17 with a set of Chargers which are the same .125/.105 dimensions.

I found after using the Proctors, I prefer some light on either side of the front sight that I get with the Dawsons. The Proctor Y's were almost absent of light bars which, for me, made the sight picture too tight. I find I pick up the front sight better with the Dawson's in IDPA/USPSA type shooting for example.