EOtech/ 4 MOA Shift

[epwegmann]

For anyone interested, USSOCOM had found issues with EOTechs that've been exposed to high heat .

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/09/30/something-is-amiss-at-l3-warrior-systems-eotech/

[HK Dave]

Meh, this probably goes for just about every optic magnified or not to some extent.

I bet if SOCCOM started testing rifle scope tracking they'd be in for a surprise there as well.

Pretty sure most folks fielding any type of red dot firing from unsupported positions can't do anything near 4moa anyhow. :P Add that the fact that standard military ball ammo and mil rifles are just as loose in the accuracy department... well you get the idea.

[patriot_man]

The problem isn't you can't group less than 4 MOA, the problem is that people can't make hits at extended distances. A 16" shift at 400 yards is basically missing the target.

I've known of this for ~6 months or so and many professionals have been picking and choosing EOTech's that exhibits the least amount of shift from the whole inventory. Many people aren't afforded this opportunity.

[HK Dave]

I understand what the supposed "problem" is.

What I'm trying to point out is that many of today's "bomb proof, ultra precise" optics really just aren't.

Killswitch on snipershide did some extensive testing of many of todays high end optics and like half failed... and failed poorly. And this was without any actual temperature extremes.

I imagine if SOCCOM went out of their way to test these same scopes in temperature extremes, they'd probably find similar issues.

I'm actually curious about this whole Eotech moa shift... I guess when I get back from my vacation I should test one of mine... zero in shade... then let it sit in the sun and get it up to 120+ degrees and see if my zero shifts.

Hmm... maybe I should try the same with my aimpoints.

I imagine an ACOG would not be affected by temp shifts... hmm, this is all quite fascinating.

[1CavScout]

-40 and +122 are fairly extreme for most shooter not deployed to a combat zone. I shoot mostly in AZ at temps up to about 115, and I have not noticed any issues with my EOTechs. Interesting read though...

[patriot_man]

I understand what the supposed "problem" is.

What I'm trying to point out is that many of today's "bomb proof, ultra precise" optics really just aren't.

Killswitch on snipershide did some extensive testing of many of todays high end optics and like half failed... and failed poorly. And this was without any actual temperature extremes.

I imagine if SOCCOM went out of their way to test these same scopes in temperature extremes, they'd probably find similar issues.

I'm actually curious about this whole Eotech moa shift... I guess when I get back from my vacation I should test one of mine... zero in shade... then let it sit in the sun and get it up to 120+ degrees and see if my zero shifts.

Hmm... maybe I should try the same with my aimpoints.

I imagine an ACOG would not be affected by temp shifts... hmm, this is all quite fascinating.

I've found my EOtech's to be perfectly stable and tested them after I heard of this from someone in the know. I feel like I got lucky in my draw.

[patriot_man]

Apparently CONEX boxes reach 140 degrees when left in the sun. Seems the high range is for storage concerns in containers

[brando]

Failures from heat have been known for at least a decade. The guys at the tip of spear were burning through 50,000 rounds a year and had numerous cumulative heat failures. That's why you don't mount an electro optic over your barrel

BUT, is this relevant to the vast majority on this forum? Not really.

[Rcjackrabbit]

In the trunk of a car, the temperature can get pretty high. The problem is that the zero may move and you won't know it. It is not just that the zero moves under temperature. It is that the zero moves to a different spot and stays there after seeing high temperatures.

Add in the frequent problems with delamination, sudden failure to turn on, and crappy battery life.

You couldn't pay me to own one on a a fighting rifle.

[brando]

Yet many, including myself, have run them in combat on deployments without issues downrange. My only problem showed up a year after demob with the unit shutting-off mid-recoil. That was the old battery spring problem that was solved by the shorter, lateral battery mount. No doubt this situation will continue to fuel the Aimpoint vs EOTech war, but it's not like the optic is total crap. It's just not as durable as we thought and more relevant to this discussion, the vast majority of folks here aren't going to be affected by the issue.

[1CavScout]

In the trunk of a car, the temperature can get pretty high. The problem is that the zero may move and you won't know it. It is not just that the zero moves under temperature. It is that the zero moves to a different spot and stays there after seeing high temperatures.

Add in the frequent problems with delamination, sudden failure to turn on, and crappy battery life.

You couldn't pay me to own one on a a fighting rifle.

I worked for a large LE agency, and all of our patrol rifles (as well as many special enforcement rifles) had EOTechs. I never personally encountered any issues. I will have to ask the guys still running them daily if they have had any issues.

[epwegmann]

Brando,
You're observations are spot on. I had deployed with EoTechs, and really never had a problem with them. Personal preference led me to put my old Aimpoint back on( I just like the small dot more). While most here may not ever have an issue with EoTechs, it is still worth mentioning the issues that have become known. Knowing that there can be MOA and parallax errors if it your optic has been exposed to any extreme of temperature can be viral knowledge; especially if you know there is a point where you're life may depend on it. Just another tool for the toolbox.

Erik

Yet many, including myself, have run them in combat on deployments without issues downrange. My only problem showed up a year after demob with the unit shutting-off mid-recoil. That was the old battery spring problem that was solved by the shorter, lateral battery mount. No doubt this situation will continue to fuel the Aimpoint vs EOTech war, but it's not like the optic is total crap. It's just not as durable as we thought and more relevant to this discussion, the vast majority of folks here aren't going to be affected by the issue.

[patriot_man]

Someone with a lot of trigger time with EOtechs posted this on facebook and I agree 100%. My preferred sight, if it works right, would be an EOtech

Some stuff cut out.

There is no other reference in the FOV of an aimpoint to apply extreme leads against full value human beings sprinting for their lives...

... We can hate the EO because it rarely works. When it does and you place it in the hands of a properly trained shooter, it can out perform the aimpoint.

This is classic Glock vs 1911 argument. Take 90% performance that is absolutely reliable OR take 99% performance that will **** you in the drive through at some point.

[HooYah]

The EOTech reticle has many advantages over the Aimpoint dot. It's faster and gives you the ability to range targets at distance. And unlike the Aimpoint T-1, the EOTech's reticle doesn't distort in shape when used with a magnifier. Given the choice between the two, I like the EOTech better.

If the failure rate of EOTechs was really that high, units like CAG and DEVGRU (who can purchase any optic they want) wouldn't still be using them.

[patriot_man]

If ya'll are interested in perspective of a former Unit guy talking about EOTech's give the latest Sheriff of Baghdad podcast on iTunes a listen. Just listened to it today and a lot of good points are made.

Also this is a better thread than the other one that was going on with everyone going omg, aimpoint ftw! and adding useless crap to the discussion lol