Im lost, help me pick a spotting scope

[cundiff5535]

Hey guys, I am about to jump in and buy my first Spotting scope. I realistically want to stay under 1K and even more realistically at $600-$800 max. If the step up to 1K (or a little more) gets me a much better of a spotter, Ill do it but, I am not sure I need it or want to drop a ton of cash (for me).

I live in the Chicagoland area so sadly, I have no place to shoot past 600... and realistically the most Ill be shooting is 300. I shoot A LOT of BR .22LR at 50 and 100 and shoot AR 223 loads at 200. Thats the majority of my shooting. I will say, I have HORRIBLE eyes so I am not sure if you all think that is impactful.

I am currently considering either a Viper Vortex HD (I am a huge fan of Vortex optics) but, I am seeing a lot of great things about Kowa, Pantax, along with Vortex and Zen Ray. I personally do not care to buy used or even an older model scope if the value is there but, I do want to get a really nice scope. I have read so many reviews, my head is seriously spinning.

I have read that the Pentax PF80 for 1K is a great buy... the Kowa 82mm TSN-82SV is a fantastic scope, and the Viper HD 20-60 is just something that makes sense as I have a bias to Vortex. And the Razor is great in terms of value at its price range. Can anyone tell me what the pro and cons are of those? What makes most sense for ME? <--- Since this is my first spotter, I am not sure.


When it comes to Optics for my rifle, I know what I like based on the many, many optics I have owned (pretty biased toward Nightforce, Zeiss, and Vortex). I do not have the time or money to burn through 10-15 spotting scopes to find out what best fits me. What I do know is that I need to make a decision soon. Weather is breaking at its almost time to start shooting again! (I am not a cold weather guy so, no chance Im going out in anything under 50 to shoot

Anyway, all help is so very much appreciated!

[HK Dave]

The difference between the Razor and Viper is quite noticeable. Of course whether you'll need the extra clarity at 300 yards is questionable.

The difference between the Razor and Kowa ultrabadasssuperexpesivescopethingprominar is minimal.

I can't imagine needing anything beyond my Razor 20-60.

Having said that... many reports say the Zen-Ray 20-60 is pretty similar to the Razor... and check out this link.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5560&t=13776887

While it probably doesn't have the phenomenal Vortex warranty... if the glass is on par with the Razor... you'd be getting that level glass for the cost of the Viper.

[Ethon1]

You are fortunate to be a couple of hours away from a store with a wide range of selections. I would highly recommend you take a trip and head over to Eagle Optics. You will be able to judge the optics for yourself.

Similar to related optics, pay attention to the eye relief as it may be more of an issue for you. Use the manufacturers' specs as a guide. I find myself using fixed eye pieces more frequently than the zoom. Available eye piece selections may sway your decision.

If you don't have one already, consider a quality tripod and head. It will reduce eye strain and stress at higher magnifications. If you are interested in the Kowa TSN-82SV, Creedmoor Sports offers a kit during the holiday season.

Another consideration from Kowa is the TSN-663M. They state it uses the same glass as the Prominar 77X series. The glass and coatings on the Prominar 773/4 is very impressive with minimal optical defects. You have to actively search for the aberrations to find them.

Imho, here are a few minor negative points regarding the Kowa.. The mounting and removal of the eye piece isn't a smooth procedure due to the o-ring seal. Only the TSN-88X and 77X have limited lifetime warranty. The remaining models have 10 years. They don't have exterior rubber coatings compared to the Razor and other european models. It shouldn't be an issue for simple range use. Lastly, I would not recommend their tripod mounted cases as they are lacking in design and construction. If you want a case, stick with the basic or find an alternative.

If I remember correctly, there were problems with the zoom eye pieces by Pentax. Try searching the bird forums to find the discussion.

Good luck and post a follow-up and a review on your decision.

[glockman19]

I bought a Baskra 20-60/80 for $60 and has server me well over the years.

[cranemech]

The difference between the Razor and Viper is quite noticeable. Of course whether you'll need the extra clarity at 300 yards is questionable.

The difference between the Razor and Kowa ultrabadasssuperexpesivescopethingprominar is minimal.

I can't imagine needing anything beyond my Razor 20-60.

Having said that... many reports say the Zen-Ray 20-60 is pretty similar to the Razor... and check out this link.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5560&t=13776887

While it probably doesn't have the phenomenal Vortex warranty... if the glass is on par with the Razor... you'd be getting that level glass for the cost of the Viper.

Thanks for the link. I just ordered that spotting scope and according to Zen-Ray this scope qualifies for their Signature No-Fault Lifetime Warranty.

[joefrank64k]

Great price on that Zen Ray...super nice spotters. You won't be disappointed.

[smoothy8500]

I have a Kowa that I picked up used. Even new scope and eyepiece together is at your budget. Most people shooting NRA Highpower at 200, 300, and 600yds are using Kowas.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/spotting-scopes/kowa/kowa-tsn-601-angled-60mm-spotting-scope

[23's Dad]

I just went through this too!

My criteria was probably a little different than yours however. I shoot NM Highpower Service Rifle, so my first requirement was eye relief. Secondly, I really couldn't afford a new stand to go with my new scope. Third, I've already bought several scopes in search of an inexpensive solution. I wanted to buy this one and be done.

I ultimately chose the Kowa 663 ED Prominar from Eagle Optics http://www.eagleoptics.com/spotting-...spotting-scope. Kowa just came out with the 663M in green, but Eagle Optics had the older 663 with the grey body for about $400 less. I also chose the 25X LER eyepiece, because I when I shoot prone, I try to be able to scope my target and observe the mirage without breaking my cheek weld. This is a technique that is infinitely more difficult to accomplish without the LER.

I picked the 663 over the 661 because I have had difficulting seeing the orange golf tees that my club uses for marking shot holes during the XTC rapid fire strings. Most of the tees with my former scopes are very indistinct. Shooters with standard definition scopes (including Kowa 821s) have difficulty sometimes. I want to avoid that situation. I will have my first full distance XTC match on 4/26 and I am looking forward to seeing the tees clearly at 300 yds (for a change).

I gave the scope an initial test yesterday at 100 yds. I was able to see shot holes from both 223 and 22 at 100 yds fairly reliably. Sometimes the lighting made it difficult, depending on the angle of the sun. I still had to search the target face sometimes to find the shot hole in a scoring ring.

Anyway, I went to Eagle Optics and bought the Kowa 663 and 25x LER with free shipping for $904. I already have a Freeland bipod stand, and I can re-use the scope cover I had on the 62mm Creedmoor brand scope that I am replacing (due to damage). I also ordered a see-through eyepiece cover and 77mm filter to protect both lenses from Adorama (both items back-ordered). My total out the door was $1014. I am hoping I have bought my last spotting scope ever.

If you don't need the 31-32mm of LER, I have read very good things about many other scopes. If you want LER, you really only have the Kowa or the Celestron M2 to choose from, and then you have to live with a fixed power. I've looked through Zeiss, Kowa, Vortex Razor, Swaro, Pentax, Leupold, and Lieca scopes at various times at my club's matches. All of these scopes had zoom eyepieces, and every one had much shorter eye-relief. They all have great images, but different, (flatter, brighter, differences in color), and it really boils down to personal preference. My favorite has been the Leupold GR 12-40x60mm HD for seeing the golf tees at 300 yds. Unfortunately it did not have the LER or the angled eyepiece to use comfortably in prone.

[fromunda]

Ditto

I bought a Baskra 20-60/80 for $60 and has server me well over the years.

Mine is great to 200 and OK at 300. Haven't tried passed that.

[TKM]

My younger friends are just sticking their I-things to their spotting scopes these days. Everybody can stand there and see exactly what's happening at the other end.

If my eyes still worked I'd consider it cheating.

As it is.... I'm giving it some thought.



Just an example, not me or my friends....

[Trakker]

Im lost, help me pick a spotting scope

I bought the vortex over the kowa. Sport optics gave me a great deal. 80mm vs 60mm is like night and day. Also you won't only be using this for shooting. You'll be using it for more things as you will be sticking your phone camera on the thing. Sticking a video camera will gives you massive eye relief and you can record the shots. Also when you go hiking you can really check out the wildlife. Buy once cry once is a true statement. I had a Barska 60mm before the razor HD. I'd loan out my Barska easily and not worry about breaking it. The clarity between the two is phenomenal.


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[HK Dave]

The razor has an optimal elr eye piece available, along with reticle options.

[ExtremeX]

Reticle options are a huge selling point for our sport... its a pretty big plus when comparing to other scopes which don't have an upgrade path for a mil or moa eyepiece.

[kozumasbullitt]

I bought the vortex over the kowa. Sport optics gave me a great deal. 80mm vs 60mm is like night and day. Also you won't only be using this for shooting. You'll be using it for more things as you will be sticking your phone camera on the thing. Sticking a video camera will gives you massive eye relief and you can record the shots. Also when you go hiking you can really check out the wildlife. Buy once cry once is a true statement. I had a Barska 60mm before the razor HD. I'd loan out my Barska easily and not worry about breaking it. The clarity between the two is phenomenal.


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What do you mean by "80mm vs 60mm is like night and day"? I am thinking about getting a Razor HD 65mm scope, is that a bad move?

[ExtremeX]

All things being equal the 85mm version of that scope with have a brighter image with better low light performance especially at higher mag ranges or at the same magnification range.

It helps to look at the exit pupil size....
65mm obj = 1.4mm @ 48x
85mm obj = 1.4mm @ 60x

For its given max magnification range, each scope will have similar low light performance, and the objectives are appropriately sized for each scopes mag range.

Using the 85mm scope, @ 48x, you will see better low light performance than the 65mm version.

That said, I would take a higher quality 65mm scope with better glass and coatings over a larger objective where the optical system / glass may not be as good.

Its also application based, I like larger objectives, but unless you plan to use in low light or less than ideal lighting conditions, you may not see a benefit. Min/Max mag ranges and field of view can also be a consideration... For example I much prefer a pair of 6x or 8x binos because of the larger FOV I can get vs a 10x pair... The 65mm version of the scope gets you a wider FOV over the 85mm version.

Edit: The main reason I personally wouldn't get the 65mm version is because the ranging reticle eyepieces are not available for them. I don't do a lot of hunting, so the smaller size/weight is of no benefit to me. I would just use a good set of binos and call it a day. For target applications, ranging/spotting, the 85mm Razor is an easy choice.