safe mounting

[Hunter87]

So I'm gonna buy a safe (Champion T series) I don't have the exact measurement but its like a 24 gun size. I was wondering what the best way to secure it. I want to bolt it to the cement floor in the room its gonna be in. Just looking for some advice, what type of bolts, type of drill bit required, things like that. thanks

[pyr02k1]

dont know about your particular safe... first, if its predrilled (as the last 2 safes I purchased were), measure the diameter of the holes, as thatll be the max width you could use on the anchors. second is to measure the depth from where the bolt will sit in the safe to the floor itself. i used an old zip tie and my fingers to get a rough judge of this. then with those 2 pieces of info, go down to your local lowes and pickup a redhead concrete anchor that matches those dimensions, +1" for length of the bolt, at least, so you can get a good anchor into the concrete. to mark my concrete, i took the same zip tie, dabbed it in some old black paint and stuck it through to the concrete. spun it around once or twice to get the outline as best i could and drilled... worked fine on both safes.

most of them will tell you what size anchor they recommend. and the anchor will tell you what size of drill bit they recommend. the reason i recommend red heads... at work we used one to mount some steel to the ground, and some intelligent jack*** decided it would be funny to remove it with a forklift rather then by just unscrewing the redheads. the 12ga steel snapped and only one of the redheads (of 4) came out. the redhead that came out took about a 6" chunk of concrete with it. mind you, this forklift is rated to lift around 3 tons...

best thing, wait until you get the safe (or just peek in the display model for the manual, or better yet, just call champion) and get the needed info that way. go grab the stuff and go to town...

[garplay]

I'd not go with redhead expanding wedge anchors, but instead go with a slower epoxy and rod anchor system (where you drill down, use special concrete epoxy, and insert lengths of threaded rod).

The redhead wedge anchors are tough, but can often be hard to get to install through the holes at the bottom of the safe, while a rod & epoxy method is slower but far easier to do.

But those RedHead anchors are tough SOBs...

[AEW]

One thing I've noticed after bolting down a few safes is that they will gently rock even with the bolts torqued down due to the relatively thin bottom plate. What I've found that helps in stabilizing the safe is using some thick aluminum plates to act as giant washers for the bolt to torque down against. For example if the inside dimension of the safe bottom 24" wide x 19" deep, I would use two 23" wide x 9" deep x 3/4" thick plates, one for the two back holes, and one for the two front holes (assuming you have mounting holes at the four corners). The plates are placed inside the safe on the floor, and the bolts go thru the plates (pre drilled holes same location as the safe's mounting holes) and bottom of the safe, and into the concrete. The bolt is torqued down and leveraged against the aluminum plates which distribute the forces over a greater area of the bottom of the safe rather than concentrate it at the 4 corners. I've found that this secures the safe well so that it barely rocks when you push against the top of the safe hard. The aluminum plates are relatively cheap, and I can usually find the right size by looking at the scrap metal bins at the metal supply shops.

[retired]

I would recommend before buying any type of anchors at all that you determine if you have a post tension slab. Don't know what that is; well, I didn't either until the superintendent of my tract told me. It was a good thing I happened to mention I intended to drill into the foundation.

These type of slabs have cables running thru them in a criss cross pattern in the middle of the slab. Our slabs are 5", so the cables are located 2 1/2" deep.

The super showed me some pics hanging in the construction trailer of injured/dead construction workers who drilled into the cables. The cables whipped thru the slab and struck them. He said there had been instances of some being decapitated.

Please be careful.

[Revoman]

That post tension cable stuff is really nothing to laugh at, those cables are stretched hydraulically to thousands of pounds per square inch and when they cut loose it's real trouble. Post tension is normally used where the soil is not as stable as it should be and in order to build at that location, the cables are used to help stabilize the slab and footings.

If you can drill, the above methods are solid ones. (Redheads or epoxy.)

I personally used 'quik-bolts' that are made by Hilti. They are threaded bolts with the wedge anchor at one end and you have to figure on the depth to drill. Most of the boxes will state the sizes.

I elevated my safe from the concrete because I didn't want it sitting on cold concrete that could wick up moisture. The elevation came via some 2" diameter stainless steel couplings that I found. (Read 3/8" wall thickness here.)

Drilling the anchors into the slab, I measured the depth of the couplings and installed a nut and washer for the safe to sit flush with the top of the stainless steel coupling, yet still allowing the coupling to move, or spin. I figured that if a thief wanted to cut through the bolts, they would have to cut through the stainless steel coupling, but the coupling moves with the saw/reciprocating blade, etc, making it that much tougher to cut through. Any time it takes too long for a theft, the better the chances for your goods. The 'quik-bolts' had to be about 6" long to make it into the slab, through the stainless steel couplings and into the safe if I remember correctly. They were also 3/4" in diameter and stainless steel as well. (I cut the holes out larger in the bottom of the safe as they were merely 1/2" holes.)

My safe has been in place for 25+ years without any moisture issues and is solid a rock. It weighs about 1100 pounds too.

[bruceflinch]

I used the Quik-Bolts as well. I made a frame of 2x4 PTF & set the safe on that over the garage floor.

Typically a Post Tensioned Slab will have a STAMP in the cement floor in the Garage Door opening.