Sturdy Vs. Amsec

[Librarian]

Librarian,

That looks nice, real nice but I dont think that will hold any of my long guns...

Your guns are more than 5 feet long? That's an AMSEC RF6528, 72" x 35" x 29-1/2" exterior - I just didn't show the whole height.

[mike100]

Just for comparison, here's a pic of the door of an AMSEC TL-15:

I like the idea of greater than 1/4" steel of the TL rated safes, but I think everybody knows that the door on that style of constructions isn't really 3" thick steel. I've seen older amsec gun boxes and they are really like sturdy in the door construction.

[Matt C]

How hard is to move a 900# safe?

Me and one other guy (he's a lightweight) moved my safe(850#) inside alone with no problem. Inside is easy (around the house), one guy can do it with a good refrigerator dolly (rent at home depot for 8$). The stairs are more tricky, we just put down a blanket and pushed it up on it's back. That was pretty easy as well. No need to hire movers, you need one strong guy and one other person for balance/lift support. (the second guy/girl can be a lightweight, but someone smart enough not to get crushed).

[surprised]

here's a pic of the door of an AMSEC TL-15

That's an AMSEC RF6528.

The RF6528 is listed by AMSEC, on their website, as being TL-30 rated. But note that the TL-30 rating is for the door only. When I called them a few weeks ago to inquire, they refused to tell me the sheet metal thickness of the body. The body walls are 3.5" thick, but I was still interested in knowing the thickness of the steel plate(s), not including the insulation.

[Librarian]

The RF6528 is listed by AMSEC, on their website, as being TL-30 rated. But note that the TL-30 rating is for the door only. When I called them a few weeks ago to inquire, they refused to tell me the sheet metal thickness of the body. The body walls are 3.5" thick, but I was still interested in knowing the thickness of the steel plate(s), not including the insulation.

Used to be both TL-15 and TL-30, when I bought mine; something like 400 pounds different mass, but the exterior dimensions are the same. To get TL-30 rating on all 6 sides, one must buy a TL-30 X 6.

Liner is not removable (at least, not by me!), so I can't even guess how thick the sidewalls are past the insulation.

Let's see, some back of the calculator guesses...

The thing weighs 3300 lb. empty. Assume for discussion that's all steel. I know it's not.

Roughly speaking, the door is 1/5 area, top and bottom are 1/5, left right and back are each 1/5. The door actually is more of the material.

Surface area of one side is 2520 square inches.

Steel is 490 lb/cu ft., 1728 cubic inches. They might use a different steel than that density refers to, but this number is OK for a guess.

1/5 of 3300 is 660 lb. If that were all steel, that would be 1.34 cubic feet.

1.34 * 1728 is 2315 cubic inches of steel per side.

2315 cubic in / 2520 sq in is 0.918 in, thickness in this case.

So, the maximum steel thickness looks like about 9/10 of an inch. We know the distribution is not even - more in the door - and we know the fire liner weighs something.

Suppose we say the fire liner is 1000 lb of the mass, again evenly distributed. That would be 1622 cubic inches of steel per side, 0.64 inches thick.

I think 'half an inch' is a respectable ballpark figure for the sides, but I really don't know. I suggest it's a reasonable guess, since various sites say they use 1/2 inch body steel on the sides of TL-30 rated safes; 1 example mgm, a general discussion here says

TL-15
Safes given a U.L. TL-15 rating have all passed standardized tests defined in UL Standard 687 using the same tools and usually the same group of testing engineers. I have personally worked with the same 5 people for 15 years. The label requires that the safe be constructed of 1-inch solid steel or equivalent.

(Interesting account of UL certification test here.)

[mike100]

I'd probably buy a TL safe next time... you know when the larger safes have feet or wheels, that you need a forklift to lift it up because a few guys aren't going to tilt it into the back of a truck.

maybe there will never be a next time...kind of reminds me of mechanic rollaway boxes. some guys like the big display which requires flat bed tow truck to move and others prefer to have to modest or small boxes so they can empty them out some and pickup truck haul them home. guess it depends on how much a guy job shops.

[Satex]

If you are going for a TL rated safe because of the weight then you should reconsider. A non TL safe that is bolted to the floor would prevent a pickup truck getaway just as effectively.
One significant drawback on TL safes is that non that I know of come with fireproofing. So you are purchasing a very good oven (metal mass) that is sure to cook everything until its well done.

[Librarian]

One significant drawback on TL safes is that non that I know of come with fireproofing. So you are purchasing a very good oven (metal mass) that is sure to cook everything until its well done.

Amsec Sierra RF6528 TL-30

[socalsteve]

Grakken

When I was researching gun safes the 2 best buys for the money IMO were the Sturdy and Amsec models.

Similar but different, I had a friend who had the Sturdy - after he died it took 2 locksmiths 6 hours to drill the thing open. Sturdy is a smaller company than Amsec so it is not widely known how to break into them. They are well made and should resist the bolt attack you mention.

I think the Sturdy is a bit more expensive than the Amsec but it may be they give you more too. I won't get into the differences.

If I was going to break into either one I would cut a big square into the back or side - peeling off the outside sheet metal then I would pound out the cement mix (amsec) or tear out the fire blanket (sturdy) and then cut the inner liner and pull everythig out from there.

It would probably be faster to just take the entire safe away and open it somewhere else where I could make noise and take my time.

BTW I ended up buying a used safe of a diff. manufacturer.

[Grakken]

tHANKS

For all your replies so far