Back problems: OWB vs IWB and Belt

[XDJYo]

Hi all,

Looking for your experience/input. I've had back problems off and on the last 20 or so years. It seems to have been gotten worse since I started to wear my 1911. I don't have a CCW, but carry at home (nights/weekends etc). I don't want to stop carrying on my hip while at home. Not something I want to consider. I am going to switch to my new XD for carry duty which will help, but it's brand new and need to test it out before I switch over.

Here's my current set up: KT Mech OWB holster, Carhartt normal leather belt (I know, not ideal) and regular Levi's 501 jeans.

Here's my question: I know I need a proper gun belt. Looking for suggestions.
Regular 1.5" leather, black. Galco? Also, looking to perhaps switch style from OWB to IWB? Perhaps Stealthgear type or King Tuk type of IWB? Thinking that the extra friction of it being wedged between the belt and me would help alleviate the pain???

Anyone with experience in this care to chime in?

Much appreciate your help!!!

[Exile Machine]

I have lower back trouble too (2x L4/L5 disc rupture, one corrected by surgery 20yrs ago) and find that IWB/OWB carry can aggravate it. In summer I carry a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster, and on other days (esp. cooler weather) I carry a Glock 21 or S&W 460XVR in a Kenai chest rig. The chest rig is very comfortable and does not torque my backbone, despite carrying a 4.5lb gun. Might look at chest rig or shoulder holster if weather permits. Good luck.

-Mark

[XDJYo]

I have lower back trouble too (2x L4/L5 disc rupture, one corrected by surgery 20yrs ago) and find that IWB/OWB carry can aggravate it. In summer I carry a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster, and on other days (esp. cooler weather) I carry a Glock 21 or S&W 460XVR in a Kenai chest rig. The chest rig is very comfortable and does not torque my backbone, despite carrying a 4.5lb gun. Might look at chest rig or shoulder holster if weather permits. Good luck.

-Mark

Twice?! Ouch. Mine's at L5/S1. It seems to have changed though, may need to get back to the doc and see what's going on.

I thought about a shoulder holster for a bit, but not sure how I could integrate that into my every day. It would need to be concealed when others visit etc. Not a big fan of leather or that the muzzle is sweeping someone when I'm carrying or on presentation. But, it does seem to solve a few problems.

[L84CABO]

Where are you carrying currently? 3 o'clock?

But if you're already having problems with OWB at 3 o'clock, I don't think moving the gun to 4 o'clock and closer to you back is going to help much. Would think it would make it worse but who knows. Have you thought about AIWB carry to get the gun away from your back altogether?

For belts, my favorite is Ares Gear Aegis Enhanced. It's not cheap but it's a fantastic belt. It will handle everything from CCW to a full range load out. Easy on, easy off and doesn't scream "shoot me first" like some of the more tactical belts (cobra buckle) can. It's also infinitely adjustable which is something I love compared to the traditional holes in a leather belt that always seem to be just a little too tight or a little too loose. YMMV.

As a side note, I've got two severely degenerated discs at L4/L5 and 3/4ths of a partially sacralized L6 that they have no earthly idea what to do with. Wearing a gun at 4 o'clock doesn't bother me too much as long as I'm standing and not putting any pressure on the gun. But sitting and/or anything that puts pressure on the gun...and subsequently against my back is no bueno. Hence appendix.

[Cokebottle]

I like the Kore Trakline 1.5" belt.

https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/gun-belts

1/4" increments make it easy to make small adjustments due to heavy/light pants, different holster/gun.... or after a heavy meal.

I carry a Shield at 2:30 in a Vedder IWB. Comfortable and conceals very well. 3:00, I feel tends to show the butt just a bit much with the angle on the hip. 2:30 pulls the butt up into the hip bone.

[ElvenSoul]

Ruger LCP and Clip Draw

http://clipdraw.com/product/ruger-lc-pistols-concealed-carry-belt-clip/

And a Trigger Guard

http://aegisarmory.us/shop/kydexholsters/the-guardian-kydex-trigger-guard/

No belt needed. Weight minimal.

[Cokebottle]

Ruger LCP and Clip Draw

Not on the roster.

LC380 is, but it's the same size as the LC9... may as well carry an LC9 or a Shield.

The only small 380s still on the roster are the Kahr P380 and Sig P238.
The Kahr shoots like a laser, and the Sig is a baby 1911.

[ElvenSoul]

Not on the roster.

LC380 is, but it's the same size as the LC9... may as well carry an LC9 or a Shield.

The only small 380s still on the roster are the Kahr P380 and Sig P238.
The Kahr shoots like a laser, and the Sig is a baby 1911.

Last few years seen quite a few for sale right here on Calguns!

[Cokebottle]

Last few years seen quite a few for sale right here on Calguns!

Sure.. if you want to pay $800 for a used $400 gun


Every now and then there's a fair price on an off-roster gun, but not often.

With this week's hype on the DOJ and ATF going after cops flipping off roster guns, I suspect we're going to be seeing fewer and fewer of these threads advertising 2 and 3 "never fired" OR guns.

[XDJYo]

Thanks all for the comments/input.

Where are you carrying currently? 3 o'clock?

But if you're already having problems with OWB at 3 o'clock, I don't think moving the gun to 4 o'clock and closer to you back is going to help much. Would think it would make it worse but who knows. Have you thought about AIWB carry to get the gun away from your back altogether?

For belts, my favorite is Ares Gear Aegis Enhanced. It's not cheap but it's a fantastic belt. It will handle everything from CCW to a full range load out. Easy on, easy off and doesn't scream "shoot me first" like some of the more tactical belts (cobra buckle) can. It's also infinitely adjustable which is something I love compared to the traditional holes in a leather belt that always seem to be just a little too tight or a little too loose. YMMV.

As a side note, I've got two severely degenerated discs at L4/L5 and 3/4ths of a partially sacralized L6 that they have no earthly idea what to do with. Wearing a gun at 4 o'clock doesn't bother me too much as long as I'm standing and not putting any pressure on the gun. But sitting and/or anything that puts pressure on the gun...and subsequently against my back is no bueno. Hence appendix.

Hope they can figure out what's going on with your back! No fun at all!!! Going to have to google sacralized disc. Mine was a simple blown disc. Although I had back surgery which helped a majority of the pain/problems, I still have problems from time to time and it's worsened by carrying.

Currently carrying at 3:00-3:30 depending. Usually 3:30. I am also sitting most of the time, but also up and about from time to time.

The Ares look nice, but I'm looking for a regular leather belt to wear with jeans and a t-shirt as well as jeans and my *nice* t-shirts when I go out. (Inside joke). So, kinda dual purpose from everyday stuff to dressy casual stuff.

AIWB would bug the crap out of me. While I haven't tried it yet, it would severely cut into my dunlap and cause stomach problems.

I like the Kore Trakline 1.5" belt.

https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/gun-belts

1/4" increments make it easy to make small adjustments due to heavy/light pants, different holster/gun.... or after a heavy meal.

I carry a Shield at 2:30 in a Vedder IWB. Comfortable and conceals very well. 3:00, I feel tends to show the butt just a bit much with the angle on the hip. 2:30 pulls the butt up into the hip bone.

My wife has a Shield and looking to buy another one. She has a Stealthgear Onyx Mini on the way for her. Might have to try that combo out to see.

I just bought an XD-45 for my regular carry (cuz' I'm a 45 guy) and wanted something lighter in place of my 1911. Hoping that the lighter weight will help alleviate some of the problems.

Holster options are open. I usually like to use a OWB kydex since it's easier to carry for me and easier to draw. But, I'm open to IWB with the exception of AIWB.

Belts-I know the belt is essential and notice that my current belt tilts out where the holster is. I've looked at the ones above and Amish made ones, Beltman, CompTac. So far, the CompTac seems to be one of the front-runners. I like the fact that you can get one that goes from 1.5" down to a 1.25" at the buckle. It's kydex reinforced for stiffness. (insert favorite 8th grade joke).
Was watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zle7Mw0-WTI

Ruger LCP and Clip Draw

http://clipdraw.com/product/ruger-lc-pistols-concealed-carry-belt-clip/

And a Trigger Guard

http://aegisarmory.us/shop/kydexholsters/the-guardian-kydex-trigger-guard/

No belt needed. Weight minimal.

Not a fan of mini pistols. Deep concealment isn't a priority, but being kind to the back is.

Keep all of the comments/input/experiences coming!!!

[Cokebottle]

The Amish belts are great, but at 1/4" thick, they are a bit much for some holsters, and if trying to maintain concealment, the very thick belt does tend to telegraph that you are carrying... particularly where it wraps around the outside of an IWB holster. The extra 1/8" is noticeable.
The Vedder clip was designed for a standard belt. The plastic clips on most hybrid holsters do fit the thicker belts better, but IMHO, the thicker belt plus the clip is a bit more obvious under a polo or t-shirt.

The Stealthgear is a great option as an upgrade to the Aliengear, which I like, but it does have a number of issues... but ultimately, the hybrid holsters, and in particular the "one backplate fits all shells" type like the Aliengear are simply "too much" holster for the subcompacts like the Shield... and I've not found the Vedder lacking even with the Glock36, despite it being a single-clip design.

I think the hybrids are decent for carry back at 3:30-4:30. They do spread the load well and are very stable... but I don't like carrying in a position that makes drawing while seated in the car an issue. At 2:30, the grip is right under my seatbelt buckle.

OTOH, I've not been overly happy with the retention of any hybrid other than Aliengear. They're not bad while being worn, but a trip to the public restroom takes the pressure off of the backing. Aliengear sandwiches a stainless plate into the backing and it works.
Aliengear and Crossbreed are not bad and retain pretty well. Tucker was my favorite hybrid for comfort and concealment, but retention was terrible... I think it was a mistake to get the leather lined kydex option.


A couple of cons on Aliengear, Crossbreed, and Tucker.... while not a big issue with the Shield, they do not cover the muzzle of guns with a 4"+ barrel. This can lead to wear on the pants, and I've seen a couple of pictures of pants with holes worn into the fabric above the pocket.

Aliengear belt clips are crap. They are very flexible and soft. I have not broken one, but I don't trust them. I replaced them with Tucker belt clips. I don't know if Stealthgear clips are the same or not.
Two issues with Aliengear that Stealthgear does "fix"...
1 - Aliengear does not breath... it's just a slab of neoprene against your skin. Stealthgear perforates the backing which is nice.
2 - Aliengear does not have any fabric binding around the edge. This causes the edge of the neoprene backing to roll back and the edge of the plastic "Alien Skin" front surface tends to bite a bit.

[XDJYo]

The Amish belts are great, but at 1/4" thick, they are a bit much for some holsters, and if trying to maintain concealment, the very thick belt does tend to telegraph that you are carrying... particularly where it wraps around the outside of an IWB holster. The extra 1/8" is noticeable.
The Vedder clip was designed for a standard belt. The plastic clips on most hybrid holsters do fit the thicker belts better, but IMHO, the thicker belt plus the clip is a bit more obvious under a polo or t-shirt.

The Stealthgear is a great option as an upgrade to the Aliengear, which I like, but it does have a number of issues... but ultimately, the hybrid holsters, and in particular the "one backplate fits all shells" type like the Aliengear are simply "too much" holster for the subcompacts like the Shield... and I've not found the Vedder lacking even with the Glock36, despite it being a single-clip design.

I think the hybrids are decent for carry back at 3:30-4:30. They do spread the load well and are very stable... but I don't like carrying in a position that makes drawing while seated in the car an issue. At 2:30, the grip is right under my seatbelt buckle.

OTOH, I've not been overly happy with the retention of any hybrid other than Aliengear. They're not bad while being worn, but a trip to the public restroom takes the pressure off of the backing. Aliengear sandwiches a stainless plate into the backing and it works.
Aliengear and Crossbreed are not bad and retain pretty well. Tucker was my favorite hybrid for comfort and concealment, but retention was terrible... I think it was a mistake to get the leather lined kydex option.


A couple of cons on Aliengear, Crossbreed, and Tucker.... while not a big issue with the Shield, they do not cover the muzzle of guns with a 4"+ barrel. This can lead to wear on the pants, and I've seen a couple of pictures of pants with holes worn into the fabric above the pocket.

Aliengear belt clips are crap. They are very flexible and soft. I have not broken one, but I don't trust them. I replaced them with Tucker belt clips. I don't know if Stealthgear clips are the same or not.
Two issues with Aliengear that Stealthgear does "fix"...
1 - Aliengear does not breath... it's just a slab of neoprene against your skin. Stealthgear perforates the backing which is nice.
2 - Aliengear does not have any fabric binding around the edge. This causes the edge of the neoprene backing to roll back and the edge of the plastic "Alien Skin" front surface tends to bite a bit.

Thanks for the detailed info!!! Yes, the thickness of those belts look like they'd be problematic as you've mentioned. Also, anything else you choose to put on your belt (phone holster, security badge zippy thingy) would be a chore to put on/off.

As far as IWB, I'm not committed to IWB or OWB. Just whatever would be best for my situation. I can't get a CCW (Contra Costa County), so this is purely for around the house. I do want something that can conceal when visitors come over by wearing a larger shirt over a t-shirt. As for the Vedder, I've always wondered how it would feel to have a piece of hard molded plastic stuck up against your side. That's why I'm looking at hybrid. But, like I said, I'm not 100% committed one way or another.

I've seen some of the youtube reviews that speak of the same problems with the Aliengear holsters. One of the reasons I didn't buy one for the wife. Unfortunately, most gun shops don't have much in the way of holsters or carry gear to test out before you buy.

I know a lot of the IWB holster makers have gone away from the spring metal clips in favor of the plastic hook style clips. The Stealthgear clips seem pretty robust.

Thanks again and keep the comments coming!

[Cokebottle]

Thanks for the detailed info!!! Yes, the thickness of those belts look like they'd be problematic as you've mentioned. Also, anything else you choose to put on your belt (phone holster, security badge zippy thingy) would be a chore to put on/off.

That is also a biggie... and I actually clip my phone onto the edge of my pocket now rather than the belt.
It's easier access without having to pull my shirt up, but why I did it was when on my belt it was too "solid" and I was always catching it on chair arms and the B-Pillar when getting into my car.
Steel clips would stretch out and then be a sloppy fit when I'd wear slacks instead of jeans or a dress belt, and the plastic clips would break when snagged.
I used to go through a phone holster every 2-3 months.

I've not had any issues in the last year since moving it to the pocket.

[AtomicOrange]

For back pain I have found that the thinner, lighter, smaller weapons carry more comfortably. No news there... kind of intuitive. Also, for me OWB is more comfortable than IWB. As the width, weight, and overall size of the weapon decreases, the difference in comfort between OWB and IWB also diminishes. I am not a big fan of small guns for carry either, but they are better for back pain, so I mostly carry a small auto in a thinnish (but stiff enough) leather IWB holster with adjustable cant and a single plastic loop clip. My main belt is a 5.11 double layer, five stitch --it is also reversible. I fell off a motorcycle years ago and broke a L5 disk lamina and also have SI joint issues.

[XDJYo]

For back pain I have found that the thinner, lighter, smaller weapons carry more comfortably. No news there... kind of intuitive. Also, for me OWB is more comfortable than IWB. As the width, weight, and overall size of the weapon decreases, the difference in comfort between OWB and IWB also diminishes. I am not a big fan of small guns for carry either, but they are better for back pain, so I mostly carry a small auto in a thinnish (but stiff enough) leather IWB holster with adjustable cant and a single plastic loop clip. My main belt is a 5.11 double layer, five stitch --it is also reversible. I fell off a motorcycle years ago and broke a L5 disk lamina and also have SI joint issues.

Thanks! At about a 13 oz difference between my 1911 and an XD-45, I'm hoping that will help take care of a lot of issues. My other issue is with the gun belt. Having support from the belt vs the pants, hips, waist should help too.

I'm open for any/all other suggestions for a belt. I have a 5.11 TDU belt, but it doesn't quite go with casual around the homestead or out to dinner look. Besides, it isn't quite as supportive as I was hoping.

The holster selection is wide open as well.