Swiss rifles

[nick]

There's a country in the middle of Europe that managed to stay out of most of Europe's wars. Some are sure that this was because Switzerland declared its neutrality in European affairs. I'm sure that must be it; after all, it worked for so many other countries that declared their neutrality... Or could there possibly be some other reason?

[xDoodles]

Can you not make me anymore jealous?

[smle-man]

It was because the Germans needed a conduit for banking and strategic material transfers. It was also a useful avenue for transactions in the rest of the non allied cause world. It would also have looked bad on the homefront if images of destroyed German speaking Swiss homes and villages made it out to the world if an invasion happened. If they wanted to the Germans could have rolled Switzerland up. The Swiss military didn't have any depth to their military force and without external intervention would have been overwhelmed in fairly short order. At least the major population centers would have. It would take a lot more than riflemen to thwart a full-on invasion of Switzerland. It may have turned into another Yugoslavia for the Germans after they got it though.

I give the Swiss much credit for talking tough and showing that German-Italian brethren or not they weren't going to open their borders to the Germans. They were an equal opportunity defender of their airspace shooting down German aircraft that strayed over their airspace and forcing down Allied bombers. It was a good deal for the U.S. airmen as the chances of surviving 30 missions to rotate home were statistically zero mid air campaign over Germany.

[Enfield47]

Nice looking collection. I really like the Vetterli with the stock carving. It reminds me of the old European hunting and target rifles.

[nick]

It was because the Germans needed a conduit for banking and strategic material transfers. It was also a useful avenue for transactions in the rest of the non allied cause world. It would also have looked bad on the homefront if images of destroyed German speaking Swiss homes and villages made it out to the world if an invasion happened. If they wanted to the Germans could have rolled Switzerland up. The Swiss military didn't have any depth to their military force and without external intervention would have been overwhelmed in fairly short order. At least the major population centers would have. It would take a lot more than riflemen to thwart a full-on invasion of Switzerland. It may have turned into another Yugoslavia for the Germans after they got it though.

I give the Swiss much credit for talking tough and showing that German-Italian brethren or not they weren't going to open their borders to the Germans. They were an equal opportunity defender of their airspace shooting down German aircraft that strayed over their airspace and forcing down Allied bombers. It was a good deal for the U.S. airmen as the chances of surviving 30 missions to rotate home were statistically zero mid air campaign over Germany.

While true (and known), other countries have declared neutrality, and other countries could've provided all of the above (and better, in some cases, since they had seaports, which Swiss do not). However, not a small part of the cost/benefit analysis for not invading Switzerland was the resources the invader would have to spend to take and hold Switzerland, and this is where it differed from the rest of the countries that declared neutrality. Sure, at least two of Switzerland's neighbors could've taken it, but at the cost that would make them vulnerable to their enemies. Given the other considerations, it just wasn't worth it.

For example, Germany seriously considered invading Switzerland in 1939-1940, but eventually decided against it.

Also, it wasn't nearly as useful for material transfer as, say, Sweden, given that Switzerland was pretty much surrounded by the Axis forces for most of, say, WWII. So there really wasn't anything they could transfer through Switzerland that they couldn't transfer through the territory under their control.

Also, given Switzerland's terrain and their longstanding plans to blow up the tunnels, roads, and bridges, I'm not sure taking it would be as easy as you describe. Especially since one of their reasons for not having much armor and air force is because of the terrain (and them not planning offensives). However, they did/do have a large artillery force, mostly emplaced along the few possible routes of advance into their country. I saw some of those fortifications, and they're formidable even today, given how hard they are to get to both from the ground and from the air. Add a bunch of well enough trained infantry into the mix, and it's not as easy to roll up.

[gunboat]

The Nazis needed a place to stash their plunder -- The swiss welcomed it -

[SanPedroShooter]

Needs an 1889. Nevermind, I see it now.

And the Swiss didn't just skip WWII, although if they were going to be invaded, that would have been the time to do it. They've been officially neutral since Napoleon and before that back to the 15th century.

Being neutral used to be an honorable distinction before 'we cant stand idly by' started getting thrown around every time Europe descended into another civil war. And now of course all over the globe. Even the Swiss do it.

Nice rifles, some of the finest milsurps ever built.

[nick]

Nice looking collection. I really like the Vetterli with the stock carving. It reminds me of the old European hunting and target rifles.

That's what attracted me to it, even though I had no idea where to get .41 Swiss rimfire. Heck, I still don't, but I'm beginning to figure out how to make .41 centerfire and got a conversion kit for the bolt.

[nick]

Needs an 1889. Nevermind, I see it now.

And with a matching bayonet, too! And it looks like soon we'll be able to get the bullets for it. It's one of the 4 unfired (by me) rifles on that picture.

[Guisan]

The Swiss have a people's militia instead of a drafted or professional army, no other European country had that. It was able to bring up all males with their guns in no-time.

[smle-man]

While true (and known), other countries have declared neutrality, and other countries could've provided all of the above (and better, in some cases, since they had seaports, which Swiss do not). However, not a small part of the cost/benefit analysis for not invading Switzerland was the resources the invader would have to spend to take and hold Switzerland, and this is where it differed from the rest of the countries that declared neutrality. Sure, at least two of Switzerland's neighbors could've taken it, but at the cost that would make them vulnerable to their enemies. Given the other considerations, it just wasn't worth it.

For example, Germany seriously considered invading Switzerland in 1939-1940, but eventually decided against it.

Also, it wasn't nearly as useful for material transfer as, say, Sweden, given that Switzerland was pretty much surrounded by the Axis forces for most of, say, WWII. So there really wasn't anything they could transfer through Switzerland that they couldn't transfer through the territory under their control.

Also, given Switzerland's terrain and their longstanding plans to blow up the tunnels, roads, and bridges, I'm not sure taking it would be as easy as you describe. Especially since one of their reasons for not having much armor and air force is because of the terrain (and them not planning offensives). However, they did/do have a large artillery force, mostly emplaced along the few possible routes of advance into their country. I saw some of those fortifications, and they're formidable even today, given how hard they are to get to both from the ground and from the air. Add a bunch of well enough trained infantry into the mix, and it's not as easy to roll up.

You are correct, it was a profit and loss game for the Germans, the Swiss were more useful independent than invaded. Nothing that I wrote takes anything away from the courage of the Swiss in WW2 walking a very fine line with the Germans.

[SVT-40]

Man... Some real sweet Swiss stuff!!!!!!

[2761377]

strategically unimportant, there was no compelling reason for Germany to invade CH, especially after June 1940. while totally surrounded by Axis powers, it was a reasonable supposition that the country would fall to Anschluss eventually.

additionally, Hitler in his foolery was obsessed by the USSR- lebensraum.

all due respect to the Swiss and their fine rifles, but, shall we say, Hitler's dance card was filled out.

[SanPedroShooter]

And with a matching bayonet, too! And it looks like soon we'll be able to get the bullets for it. It's one of the 4 unfired (by me) rifles on that picture.

Its next on my list. Im not sure what bullets Im going to use.

This guy has some pretty good videos on loading for it



I got the conversion firing pin for the vetterlli, but I haven't converted yet.

8mm lebel brass and 44 Mag cast bullets. I'm almost sure Im going to use black powder.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

The Swiss have a people's militia instead of a drafted or professional army, no other European country had that. It was able to bring up all males with their guns in no-time.

I am not an expert, but my amateur historian opinion is that Germany saw more strategic & economic value in not invading, rather than a fear of Swiss riflemen. While Swiss rifles and marksmanship are beyond question, they would have been little more than target practice for the Luftwaffe and subsequent armored blitzkrieg.