03-A3

[littlejake]

With the 03-A3 getting more difficult to obtain.. and out of state sellers being unwilling to sell to CA, there are some places who sell reworked 03A3s here in CA. New barrel, refinished, new stock. All in original configuration.

Now as a collector's piece, it's perhaps less desirable. But for wanting one to shoot, it seems a fine way to go.

The ATF has opined that military rifles must be in original configuration to be C&R.

But what about original "condition?" Are these 03A3s transferable to an FFL-3 with a COE as a C&R rifle?

[SoCal Bob]

Yes. AIM Surplus has them listed in their C&R section on a semi regular basis (none at the moment). http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.as...Relic+Firearms

[kouye]

Simpson's LTD sells to CA. I bought one a couple of months ago.

[elk hunter]

Be very careful what you buy some of these rifles are "re-claimed" drill rifles that were de-milled. Most were damaged by the welding that was done to the receiver ring and other parts in the process. I have one of the RI 03's and a Remington 03A3 that I bought from the CMP that some day if the grand kids don't start showing a interest in are going to be sold off. There are thousands of these rifle out there in peoples hands be patient and find a good one. HTH

[Flyin Brian]

Be very careful what you buy some of these rifles are "re-claimed" drill rifles that were de-milled. Most were damaged by the welding that was done to the receiver ring and other parts in the process. I have one of the RI 03's and a Remington 03A3 that I bought from the CMP that some day if the grand kids don't start showing a interest in are going to be sold off. There are thousands of these rifle out there in peoples hands be patient and find a good one. HTH

What exactly do you mean by "most were damaged"? Are you claiming they are unsafe to fire... or dangerous?

I saw dozens of them at the CMP Western Games being used at the Vintage rifle matches.

[littlejake]

elk hunter is pointing out a problem I am aware of. Some vendors are using receivers from drill rifles that were welded to "demill" them. The heat of welding destroys temper. I would hesitate to fire one that's resurrected from "demill."

I am thinking about getting one from Miltech Arms. Their receivers are not from demilled rifles.

[SoCal Bob]

This comes up on a regular basis, mostly with the mention of a Gibbs rifle. If anyone could post a link to any verified accounts of a Gibbs rifle suffering a catastrophic failure, due to an improperly reclaimed receiver, I would be most grateful.

Please note; verified does not include failures due to overcharged rounds because of reloading mistakes nor does it include links to threads of others warning about Gibbs rifles that only contain anecdotal stories about their wife's, hairdresser's, cousin's, friend's, brother-in-law's rifle blowing up.

[elk hunter]

What exactly do you mean by "most were damaged"? Are you claiming they are unsafe to fire... or dangerous?

I saw dozens of them at the CMP Western Games being used at the Vintage rifle matches.

Yes I am saying that many if not most all of them were welded at the junction of the barrel and receiver, "welded" welding can and did weaken the receiver ring. And that's why the CMP told people "NOT" to try to restore the welded de-milled drill ceremonial rifles to operating shooting rifles, they were and are unsafe. If you want to shoot them or the low number 03's have at it I wouldn't let you near me while shooting either one of them, I value my life and body parts. I explained the facts in my advice to the OP but like you it's his call if you want to have at it. littlejake is correct. How many of you would take a gas or arc welder and weld the barrel to the receiver ring then go shoot it feeling that your rifle is OK.

My advice to the OP stays "exactly" the same, find a good one not a re-claimed de-milled drill rifle. The welded drill rifles are unsafe, not safe to shoot. Have a nice day.

elk hunter

[highpower]

Yes I am saying that many if not most all of them were welded at the junction of the barrel and receiver, "welded" welding can and did weaken the receiver ring.
My advice to the OP stays "exactly" the same, find a good one not a re-claimed de-milled drill rifle. The welded drill rifles are unsafe, not safe to shoot. Have a nice day.

elk hunter

I have to call BS on this. While I won't say that there aren't some that may have been severely welded, my personal experience differs from this statement.

A friend of mine bought 75 of these demilled rifles. I have a barrel vise and a action wrench and contracted with him to remove the barrels.

On ALL of those that I personally handled the weld was so small as to be negligible. I was able to cut the weld with a thin cutting disc and at no time did I see any penetration that was deeper than about .020-.030in.. It was as though the person doing the welding just wanted it to look like the barrel was welded in place.

In fact the welded spot on the cut off was far more intrusive in many cases, although it too, looked like the guy doing the welding wasn't trying to spend a whole lot of time on the project.

Most of the effort to ruin a perfectly good rifle was put into the barrel where a hole was drilled into the chamber and a rod was welded into the barrel through the chamber hole.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I have a James River Armory that was a "rebuild" using a Remington receiver and refinished & reparked milsurp parts. The barrel and the stock are new production. I paid about $625 for it "brand new". I haven't shot it yet due to not having a lot of 30-06 ammo but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it. It probably doesn't have much collector value but frankly I don't care. I have another "authentic" 03A3 that is legit that fills the collector bill.

[The Gleam]

There were so many 03-A3's made, plenty in CA alone, and still many floating around as arsenal reworks, with barrels as sharp and new-looking as if they were made yesterday - and can still be had for under $700, why would you ever even entertain the idea of getting one that was a de-milled re-work anyway even if they are just as stout and safe?

I would just be patient, mildly pursue it, and not get antsy about having to get one. Most everyone is still pining to get ARs and AKs, and as the video-game era fan-boys hit 18, every black rifle you can think of will be the holy-grail for them, as they ignore those beautiful Springfields so easily within their grasp for being handed down to them.

As the older generations die off, their guns will start hitting the C&R racks of gun stores everywhere. Their widows will ditch them, their NeoSocialist brats will have no respect for them.

Already in the past 3 years, I've passively come across more original, great-condition Winchester 1873s, pre-64 Model 94s and pre-64 Model 70s, exquisite Lugers AND 1903-A3s with stories similar to the above, than I could ever remember coming across in the prior 30 years when ACTIVELY looking for them.

Case in point? I bought this Remington 1903-A3 for $695 just last year. My own 1903-A3, 1943 - pinned stock, next to a modern Remington 700 Enhanced-engraved BDL in .338 Remington UltraMag for fun comparison.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I don't necessarily agree with you on the drawbacks of rebuilds, but I must say, dang that 1903a3 looks nice. Nothing looks sharper on a US milsurp than that greenish gray park.

[mmiller]

"And that's why the CMP told people "NOT" to try to restore the welded de-milled drill ceremonial rifles to operating shooting rifles, they were and are unsafe."

Elk Hunter, if what you state is true, why does CMP allow reclaimed Drill/Ceremonial rifle to be used in CMP matches? Yes, I know they don't allow low numbered 03's. Could it be that their attorney had them make a statement like that to cover general liability?