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[SigSour5888]

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[dfletcher]

If the gun is greater than 50 years old and complies with "original configuration" requirements, however murky they may be, the gun is C & R eligible. If the gun is fewer than 50 years old it is not C & R eligible, unless specifically listed.

The Smith Model 53 and Colt SAA 2nd Gen would be good examples. All Smith 53s and all Colt SAA 2nd Gen are C & R eligible regardless of date of manufacture - the Colt SAA 2nd Gen was manufacture until the mid-70's IIRC. Ishapore Enfields and Winchester 88s are other examples of "fewer than 50 year old C & R eligible" guns.

I'm not quite certain of the process by which a fewer than 50 year old gun becomes C & R eligible. I suspect someone has to get the ball rolling and ATF makes a ruling based on criteria such as uniqueness, quantity produced, no longer being manufactured, etc. That the "younger than 50" Smith 53, Colt SAA and other more common and less collectible guns are eligible while the Colt is not - I suppose that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but such is the workings of the government.

[TRAP55]

Pythons up to serial number 30799, would be 50yrs old.

[watt79]

FFLs can't make any judgements about what is C&R and what isn't. Its up to the ATF to put something on the list if it isn't over 50 years old.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...Can a FFL in California make that judgement due to the "gray area" with regard to the DOJ's 1 or 3 criteria points that deems the firearm a "collectible" piece??

There is no "gray area". CalDOJ and FFLs have ZERO ability under the law to grant C&R status to firearms. ATF is the only agency that can make such determinations for firearms that are less than 50 years old.

Lots of bad information above Lou. MANY CA FFL's have lost their man parts to make decisions.

LOL. Only ATF can make the decision to grant C&R status to a less than 50 year old firearm. This is made clear in the Code of Federal Regulation...

Any person who desires to obtain a determination whether a particular firearm is a curio or relic shall submit a written request, in duplicate, for a ruling thereon to the Director. Each such request shall be executed under the penalties of perjury and shall contain a complete and accurate description of the firearm, and such photographs, diagrams, or drawings as may be necessary to enable the Director to make a determination. The Director may require the submission of the firearm for examination and evaluation. If the submission of the firearm is impractical, the person requesting the determination shall so advise the Director and designate the place where the firearm will be available for examination and evaluation.

[nstoolman1]

I have one that turned 50 a couple of years ago. I logged it into my C + R book just to be safe. My ser # 98XX makes it a 1961.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

All interesting debate....i have a ohone number that i recd with my -03 package and entry booklet. I will try to contact the DOJ in the morning forca clarification.Thanks to all.

[The Gleam]

I don't know why anyone would ever pay anything higher than $6,000 for the set. I put these up there with "commemorative" guns, the only thing being nifty about them is that they are Pythons.

1) They made a good number of them compared to other limited numbers for Pythons meant for use and utilitarian purposes - and it was a marketing gimmick.

2) Because of the "presentation" style akin to something from the Franklin-Mint, they were most often never shot, never taken out of their glass case, and left in-tact, unfired, unused. They were "collector" guns - for non-collectors.

3) Most any existence will forever remain in existence, never shot, never taken out of their case, and left in-tact, unfired, unused.

Three times in the past 2 decades I've had the chance to buy a mint set for under $6,000 and passed on them. I would do so again. I even saw a set at the Glendale, CA gun show about 8 years ago - and passed, whereby a salesman from "Sportsmans Access" up in Penryn,CA who also had a booth at the show picked them up. He could not unload those for the longest time.

[Mike A]

FYI, one of the more common (and useful) gun families that are C&R regardless of age are Colt Woodsman .22 autos and their close relatives: the Huntsman, Challenger, and Targetsman. They were made up until the late 1970s at least.

The later Colt "Target" .22 auto based on the Hi-Standard "Duramatic" is NOT C&R eligible. No great loss, IMO.

[MFortie]

Am I to understand handguns over 50 years old can be sold to a FFL 03 holder without going through a FFL 01? Provided the FFL 03 log the purchase in their bound book?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Am I to understand handguns over 50 years old can be sold to a FFL 03 holder without going through a FFL 01? Provided the FFL 03 log the purchase in their bound book?

In most other States, yes. But in California handgun transfers have to go through a California dealer. A California C&R FFL can go to other States and acquire C&R handguns directly and then just mail in a registration form to CalDOJ within five days of returning to California with the handguns. But if they want to acquire C&R handguns while inside California, either from another Californian or shipped in from out of state, the transfer has to go through a California dealer.

C&R handguns are exempt from California's safe handgun roster, which is probably the main thing the OP was getting at with this thread, but it's hard to tell now that he deleted all of his posts except for his first post.