Going about starting a firearm collection - World War II 1911

[thorium]

Hi, I want to begin collecting some firearms beyond my "shooters" (modern firearms).

I would like to start with a 1911 with world war ii provenance.

First, are there recommended books web sites or other education for someone starting down the oath of collecting historic firearms?

Second, where are the best places to source a World War II 1911 specifically? Auction sites, well known dealers, etc?

Thank you for your insights

[Tonymin]

I like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Model-1911A1-Military-Commercial-Pistols/dp/1882391462/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1407253135&sr=8-7&keywords=1911+book

[highpower]

There are lots of mismatched 1911's out there due to multiple arsenal rebuilds and there are more than a few fakes. Get the books and due your due diligence with your research. After a while you'll be able to spot the wonky guns.

If you are in a hurry to get a GI 1911, the reputable dealers may be your best bet. Be prepared to pay significant money for a good one though.

[Gutter]

Gunboards is an excellent resource for collecting. Check them out.

[Armistice]

Gunbroker is a good online auction site

The only thing you'll find is if it was made during WW2. Firearms were never "logged" with what battles they were in, or who they were issued too. Just wasn't possible to keep track of millions of firearms and soldiers and where they were/ fighting

[aeromech]

I have my Dad's service .45 from WWII. It's a Springfield and has "Property of US Gov" stamped on it. It's just too bad that when I was in college I had it customized. The frame is now satin nickel and the slide is black teflon. That destroyed any collectors value. I still shoot it a lot and it's a great gun but I just wish that the "expert" I went to back then would have talked me out of doing it.

[2shotjoe]

samco has a few.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Gunboards is an excellent resource for collecting. Check them out.

Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.

[DesertWalker]

Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.

^^^^ This is the best laugh I have had all day. Thanks, Bobby.

[Armistice]

Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.

See quote

[Milsurp Collector]

Hi, I want to begin collecting some firearms beyond my "shooters" (modern firearms).

I would like to start with a 1911 with world war ii provenance.

Unless you are able to acquire a pistol from the estate of a World War II veteran, you will not get any "provenance" that it was used in World War II.

Both M1911's and M1911A1's were used during World War II - and in Korea - and in Vietnam - and beyond until they were replaced by the Beretta M9.

M1911's - but not M1911A1's - were also used in World War I and in the Central American and Caribbean Banana Wars as well as from WWII through Grenada, so they had a longer service life than M1911A1's. People interested in World War II often limit themselves to M1911A1's, unaware that M1911's were also used.

For example, this was posted in another forum. It is a M1911 - not a M1911A1 - that was battle-damaged while being carried by a Marine on Iwo Jima http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=28925



Be prepared to spend a minimum of $1000. For $2000 and up you can get something nice. Uncommon makers in excellent condition can cost even more.

I saw a Singer M1911A1 at a gun show today, one of only 500 made. It has a chain of ownership from the WWII paratrooper who used it from D-Day on.



Singers sell from $30,000 to $50,000. http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/61/lid/1620

First, are there recommended books web sites or other education for someone starting down the path of collecting historic firearms?

The best books, like the firearms themselves, are expensive. The best books are by Clawson. The basic Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 used to sell for a little over $100. At the same gun show where I saw the Singer today, a book seller was asking $299 for them. If you can get one for under $150 you should get it. There are copies for sale on Ebay.

The "big" Clawson book Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 sells for around $800, if you can find one for sale.

An good alternative is buying volumes 1 and 2 of U.S. Military Automatic Pistols by Meadows

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Automatic-Pistols-Volume-1894-1920/dp/B001TO1OEC/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WDQ6ACATSPASCWTTXAT

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Military-Automatic-Pistols-1920/dp/B003L3UBG6

The best web site is http://coolgunsite.com/
The best forum is http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30

You should spend a lot of time at both sites before shopping.

Second, where are the best places to source a World War II 1911 specifically? Auction sites, well known dealers, etc?

Thank you for your insights

Before shopping, you need to know what to avoid. There are a lot of ex-military 1911-types that have removed UNITED STATES PROPERTY markings and/or removed/fake serial numbers. The altering was probably done by the veterans who removed the pistols from the government's inventory without permission, in order to try to obfuscate the origin and true ownership of the pistols. The pistols with no UNITED STATES PROPERTY markings have no collector value, and the ones with removed, obliterated, or altered serial numbers are illegal to own. Use the reference books and coolgunsite.com to learn what the original UNITED STATES PROPERTY and serial numbers look like and where they were located. Avoid pistols with missing or altered markings like a plague.

Be aware that pre-1946 1911-types don't have fully hardened slides, so the slides are prone to cracking if fired too many times. They are more collector items than shooters.




Military 1911-types should be fired very little, if at all. If you want a military-style 1911 to shoot on a regular basis, get a modern military-style 1911 from Auto Ordnance or Springfield Armory, Inc. as a shooter.

There are also a lot of kit guns out there- guns assembled on commercial frames using used USGI parts kits. Those have no collector value, and they don't make good shooters because they don't have hardened slides. Avoid those too.

While you are saving up enough money, do your homework. If you try to buy a "bargain" before doing your homework you will probably end up wasting your money on junk.

As you can see below, I favor M1911's over M1911A1's, although I like both and I wish I could afford more.

[Ubermcoupe]

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