Turkish 1903Maser question

[nick]

Hi,

I just found a Turkish 1903 Mauser from 1935 in 8mm Mauser. Those of you who have it, can you tell me what potential issues to look for, or what problems I might have with it?


Thanks,


nick


P.S.: Sorry for the grammar in the title, wireless keyboard with dying batteries

[bigthaiboy]

Prior to 1918, Turkey was a part of the great Ottoman Empire, with it's wealth, they were able to buy the best rifles of that era, in particular they ordered 100s of thousands of the Spanish Model 1893 followed by German Gewehr 98 and CZ98/22, all chambered in 7.65x53mm.

The Model 1903 is not actually a rifle model but a standardisation refurbishment model chambered in the 7.65x53mm caliber, but were later rechambered to 7.92x57mm as the Model 1938 (T38), although the standardisation program to convert all the Turkish rifles to 8mm actually began as early as 1933. Chances are yours was never chambered in 7.65x53mm, but as an 8mm from it's 1935 manufacture / refurb.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Turkey could not afford to buy new rifles, so set out to refurbish what they already had. Old rifles were scrubbed and the K.Kale or Ankara plus the turkish cresent moon and star and refurbishment / build date was stamped on the receiver. K.Kale also built a large number of new receivers but used refurbed bolts and actions from older rifles.

As for problems, there really isn't any, as the mauser Gew 98 action is practically bombproof. Be aware, if you have a mismatched bolt / receiver, have the headspace checked (as you should do with all mismatched bolts). The Turkish mausers can handle hot loads as the Turkish 8mm ammo was generally loaded on the hotter side.

I have a 1942 M1938, and it shoots accurately and reliably. On the underside of the bolt it still has a German Imperial crown stamped on it, indicating the bolt (and or other parts of the rifle) originated from a German-made Gew 98. Here is my rifle after a little bit of work:

M38.JPG

[nick]

Thank you for the info. Hmm, a little bit of work? Here's mine the way I got it (haven't done any work on it yet, haven't even cleaned it):











Ignore the tail, my cat's crazy about firearms and especially ammunition for some reason, so when I pulled it out of the safe to take picture, I made her day.

[bigthaiboy]

Thank you for the info. Hmm, a little bit of work? Here's mine the way I got it (haven't done any work on it yet, haven't even cleaned it):

Yours was a lot nicer than mine ever was. Mine was a rat, with the stock cracked in 3 places. Mind you, I only paid $75.00 for it FTF. I fitted to an original unissued virgin Turkish stock made in the 1940's, which I bought at a gun show for only $5.00. Only took about 30 hours work to get it to fit right.

Mine shoots very well, and is very accurate. A couple of years ago, Turkish Mausers were everywhere for cheap. You don't see them very often now.

[nick]

Yeah, I got mine for $80 from Big 5 a week ago. Apparently, the store manager found this one in the storeroom (the papers on the box stated that it was received by that store in 2005). I was just passing by that store, and figured I'd stop by and see what they have. Sure enough, they had a rifle that didn't look right, given what I'm used to seeing there.

Then I came to pick it up 11 days later, and they had a British Enfield No 4 Mk 1 made by Savage (it's marked US Property) for $200. According t othe store manager, SoCal Big 5s got 10 of them (1 in each of the 10 stores). Another thing I didn't expect to see at Big 5. So I went to two other stores that had it, checked those out (one had a cracked stock, and the other one had a problem with the bolt and was missing the front sight). The first one had the best bore of the 3, as well. So, once again, I got the one I originally saw. I wonder what they'll surprise me with when I go to pick up the Enfield.

BTW, those Enfields had weird rifling. It looked like they had 2 or 3 (don't remember exactly) narrow grooves, and very wide lands. I've never had a British rifle before, so I wonder what's up with that.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Prior to 1918, Turkey was a part of the great Ottoman Empire, with it's wealth, they were able to buy the best rifles of that era, in particular they ordered 100s of thousands of the Spanish Model 1893 followed by German Gewehr 98 and CZ98/22, all chambered in 7.65x53mm.

I think that the Turkish Model 1903 was the last rifle they ordered in 7.65x53mm. The Gew 98's that they received from Germany during WWI and the M98/22's that they bought from the Czechs in the 1920's were all in 7.92x57 to begin with.

[bigthaiboy]

Nick, looks like you got your M1903 at 2005 prices. Well done. Enfields are some of my favorite WWII rifles and I have 3 of them, two No.4 Mk1s and a wire-wrapped No.1 Mk3. Can't say I've ever noticed the rifling. I'll have to check them out.

[Moonclip]

BTW, those Enfields had weird rifling. It looked like they had 2 or 3 (don't remember exactly) narrow grooves, and very wide lands. I've never had a British rifle before, so I wonder what's up with that.

I think that is normal on some of the wartime era rifles.

[smle-man]

I think that is normal on some of the wartime era rifles.

The #4 Lee Enfield was made with 2 groove barrels as originated by Savage as a war-time expediant. They worked just fine and this was later adopted for the U.S. 03A3 and rebarreled 1917s. The 2 groove is as accurate as a 4, 5, or 6 groove tube.

Speaking of the Turks refurbing all of their rifles to 7.92mm, they even did this to Lee Enfields captured in their theater of WW1 from the Empire forces opposing them. The cobbled together features from Mauser and SMLE rifles to produce something that probably cound be fired at least 10 times before there were serious problems!

[nick]

I think that the Turkish Model 1903 was the last rifle they ordered in 7.65x53mm. The Gew 98's that they received from Germany during WWI and the M98/22's that they bought from the Czechs in the 1920's were all in 7.92x57 to begin with.

Well, I assume mine is a 1903, for it looks like one. The date on the receiver is 1935, unless that's the date it was refinished.

[nick]

Nick, looks like you got your M1903 at 2005 prices. Well done. Enfields are some of my favorite WWII rifles and I have 3 of them, two No.4 Mk1s and a wire-wrapped No.1 Mk3. Can't say I've ever noticed the rifling. I'll have to check them out.

Well, I'll know more when I actually pick it up. That was just the impression I have from checking out those 3 bores.

[nick]

The #4 Lee Enfield was made with 2 groove barrels as originated by Savage as a war-time expediant. They worked just fine and this was later adopted for the U.S. 03A3 and rebarreled 1917s. The 2 groove is as accurate as a 4, 5, or 6 groove tube.

Speaking of the Turks refurbing all of their rifles to 7.92mm, they even did this to Lee Enfields captured in their theater of WW1 from the Empire forces opposing them. The cobbled together features from Mauser and SMLE rifles to produce something that probably cound be fired at least 10 times before there were serious problems!

Good to know, thank you. Hmm, wartime expediency is why I don't like buying wartime production rifles. I have several Mosin Nagants (91/30 and M44). You can tell the difference between the 1942 one I have and the 1924, 1926, and 1934 ones, for 91/30s. Even 1948 M44 looks to be better made than the 1943 one (I know, it's kinda weird to see an M44 from 1943, but that's the date it has on the receiver), despite 1948 being a shortly post-war year.

[bigthaiboy]

FYI, SOG has been selling the 1943 M44s for $200, as that was a low production year.

[Spiggy]

1943 was the first series, the ones produced were probably test and trial rifles squeezed out on washed 91/30 and 38 recievers.

It was low production because the M44 was introduced very late in 1943, august or so.

[nick]

FYI, SOG has been selling the 1943 M44s for $200, as that was a low production year.

Ouch. As it was the more poorly made of the two, I chose to, umm, bubbarize it with an ATI stock. I kept the original stock, of course. However, the receiver was also tapped for the scope mounts, as at the time I didn't know of the scope mount that replaces the rear sights. That's not mentioning lowering the bolt handle. Well, I did keep the bayonet for some reason

On the upside, it shoots pretty well to 200 yards, and the ATI stock is much more comfortable than the original one.