Black powder guns still legal to sell w/o FFL?

[Gryff]

I haven't followed law changes affecting black powder firearms in recent years. Is it still legal to sell a BP pistol or rifle without using an FFL? Does it make a difference if it is a modern production rather than a vintage gun?

Thanks!

[Quiet]

Under Federal and CA laws...
Muzzle loading blackpowder firearms do not require a FFL dealer to transfer.

[Armistice]

Any antiques do not need to go through an FFL. Cash carry for antiques

[sealocan]

Although I am NOT a lawyer or doctor (but I will play act as one if that's what my girly wants.)

I believe what "Quite" has said is correct and I posted these question quotes from the Calguns foundation Wiki information FAQ page.
I suggest you do a search go there yourself it's almost at the bottom of the page.

"
Black Powder Questions

Do I have to transfer a black powder firearm through a firearms dealer (FFL)?
No.
What about reproduction black powder firearms?
Are black powder firearms considered "firearms" at all?
Can I carry a black powder pistol without a CCW then?
No. A black powder pistol is considered a firearm for the purposes of concealed carry laws."



and although it's not as clear as all the other FAQ questions and answers because all the other questions have answers right after them.
I think you get the point.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/FAQ

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***** though I would like to see someone, may be a moderator, read what I posted here and check out the page and they will see it looks like someone has forgot to put answers in two of the question slots.( don't get me wrong I think the Calguns foundation is an amazing thing. it just looks like these were missed or maybe it's written in a way that isn't super clear to me.)

the two questions that I'm talking about are


What about reproduction black powder firearms?
Are black powder firearms considered "firearms" at all?



there are no answers after or beneath either one of those questions.

maybe there's a reason for that...but if someone could check it out, that would be great.

thank you so much for everything calguns and the calguns foundation.

[Beroen]

the two questions that I'm talking about are

What about reproduction black powder firearms?
Does not matter "black powder" replica, homebuilt, antique, cannon it makes no difference pretty sure even if I had a black powder cartridge gatling gun it makes no difference. I have a black powder cartridge gun nut buddy he goes to shows all.the time but that's all he sells because he has no FFL

Are black powder firearms considered "firearms" at all?

Under all laws other than that of sales and transfers YES

[0321jarhead]

Yes...legal to sell.

Weather its old (antique) or new like my Lyman 50cal. Great Plains, no FFL is or was required. But, some places, per company dumb-*ss policies (paranoia) require FFL/01. This is one to avoid. (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php) I learned that the hard way. Ask first before you use your credit card.
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[sl0re10]

I haven't followed law changes affecting black powder firearms in recent years. Is it still legal to sell a BP pistol or rifle without using an FFL? Does it make a difference if it is a modern production rather than a vintage gun?

Thanks!

No diff for a repro of an old muzzle loader.

I have a Remington new army repo.

[Tom-ADC]

I usually think of these as cap & ball or flintlock. These are good to go no FFL needed but some BP firearms the cartridge type aren't antiques.

[sl0re10]

I usually think of these as cap & ball or flintlock. These are good to go no FFL needed but some BP firearms the cartridge type aren't antiques.

pretty sure if it is a repo that takes cartridge ammo out of the box then its legally a gun regardless of year designed.

but since its legal to build your own... if you take a muzzle loader (revolvers included) and convert it to a cartridge gun yourself... legal.

[Tom-ADC]

True conversion cylinders legal BUT don't ship one with the cylinder installed, ship the cylinder separate.
Plus here in CA there are some mods you can't make and still have the revolver legal. I think loading gate perm mounted is one of those.

[Cheezle56]

True conversion cylinders legal BUT don't ship one with the cylinder installed, ship the cylinder separate.
Plus here in CA there are some mods you can't make and still have the revolver legal. I think loading gate perm mounted is one of those.

Then SSE the conversion? All non- cartridge BP firearms are still cash and carry.

[Tom-ADC]

Then SSE the conversion? All non- cartridge BP firearms are still cash and carry.

Basically what I said earlier, until we got on conversions, your right.

[Gryff]

pretty sure if it is a repo that takes cartridge ammo out of the box then its legally a gun regardless of year designed.

but since its legal to build your own... if you take a muzzle loader (revolvers included) and convert it to a cartridge gun yourself... legal.

Sorry...my inquiry was specifically regarding muzzleloaders/non-metallic-cartridge firearms.

[2761377]

Then SSE the conversion? All non- cartridge BP firearms are still cash and carry.

SSE is for non-rostered Semi-Autos.

non-rostered Double Action revolvers may be acquired new by a complement to SSE, conversion to Single Action only.

Thank CASS for the Single Action exemption to the roster- as long as the barrel length is greater than 3.5", single action revolvers are exempt from the roster.

none of which applies to the question- cap and ball revolvers, even modern reproductions, and all front-stuffers are not even considered firearms for the purpose of new sales.

straight from Cabela's to your door, 100% legal.

[arnie19]

Years ago when I had an FFL license ,I spent a long time on the phone with a person from the DOJ of California with my big red book in my lap and he had the same . I pointed out some wording and he confirmed to me that any cap and ball revolver should be registered and 15 day wait at the time .He said that included the kits and even ready to fire single shots (pirate looking pistols ) .The only exemption was a single shot in kit form .
I as him then why can I go to most any store in the state and buy a cap and ball revolver over the counter no questions ask ? he said that's local law enforcements problem .They only make the laws to be enforced by local police .