C&R behemoth - 20mm

[pitfighter]

Read the description -

I may have to touch base with DOJ and confirm this on Monday!

Might be worth the drive for me -

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=416958414#PIC

*FYI - you'll need the form four from ATF - and you cannot possess in CA without a DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit.
But - still - fun, no?

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Buy that and become the California King of all things C&R instantly. C. Thomas Howell would have had a much better chance going toe to toe with that Hind gunship if he had this beast rather than a measly AK.

[VegasND]

I've always wanted one. When I was a kid I wanted to order one out of a magazine and I had the money! My dad wouldn't let me, I still remember his words: "What would a 13 year old boy need with an anti-tank rifle?"

The ad might have been for a Solothurn:


If I could afford it, I'd buy the one in the ad you linked.

Anybody want to loan me about $8K?

[Enfield47]

That would be sweet to own. Pit, if you got it, would you keep it for your personal collection or demilitarize it and use it as a prop gun?

[pitfighter]

Enfield47,

It would never rent enough to earn back it's cost, as an prop inventory item.

As a toy - it's ok, but, really - I like the idea of crossing all those state lines with an anti-tank gun in the trunk - I'm just deviant like that - the fun would be over by the time it was in the safe

[beetle]

i got to examine and play with one at the Rock Island Auction. the fit, finish, and workmanship was amazing. it really was a high precision piece of machinery.

**edit** I meant the Solothurn like in the ad. the gun broker auction is for a Lahti which I have not yet seen.

[cwilliams]

[Full Clip]

Also, for some laughs...
The iMac didn't have a chance...

[louie]

They used to sell those guns on Hollywood Blvd in the 50's and early 60's. There was an Army Navy store that had all kinds of cool surplus stuff for sale. Ooops, didn't look at the ad that closely. that's where they sold them!!! The days of old, when CA was a really cool state to live in. Now it's probably illegal to look at the picture of the ad w/o DOJ approval!!

[Quiet]

*FYI - you'll need the form four from ATF - and you cannot possess in CA without a DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit.
But - still - fun, no?

CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a DD can be acquired with a "good cause" of collecting. [11 CCR 4128(c)(4) & 11 CCR 4135]

However...
... as a condition of the collector "good cause", you can not legally shoot the DD in CA.
... you still need to comply with the registration, storage, and transportation requirements for Dangerous Weapons.
... you need to pay an annual fee to maintain the validity of your Dangerous Weapons Permit.


11 CCR 4128
General.
(a) Except as provided in sections 30900 through 30945, 31050, 31055, and 31100 of the Penal Code, no person shall possess, transport, or sell any dangerous weapon in this state unless he/she has been granted a license and/or permit pursuant to these regulations.
(b) No license or permit shall be issued to any applicant who fails to establish good cause for such license or permit and that such license or permit would not endanger the public safety.
(c) To establish good cause, an applicant must provide the DOJ with clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit and that the applicant can satisfy that need without endangering public safety. Except as provided by Penal Code section 33300, good causes recognized by the DOJ to establish a bona fide necessity for issuance of dangerous weapons licenses or permits include the following:
(4) Possession for the purpose of maintaining a collection of destructive devices as defined in Penal Code section 16460 but such possession shall not be allowed for short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, machineguns or assault weapons.
(d) No license or permit shall be issued to any applicant who fails to comply with local zoning restrictions or local fire-protective services regulations or ordinances.
(e) The DOJ shall provide a notice of each license or permit issued to the Chief of Police or Sheriff having jurisdiction over the licensee or permittee's location. Copies of outstanding licenses and permits shall be provided to the Chief or Sheriff of jurisdiction upon request.

11 CCR 4130
Record Keeping.
(e) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall provide a signed statement that the weapon(s) or ordnance were not fired or discharged. Permittees authorized to publicly display their destructive device inventory shall maintain records of when their collection was put on display.
(1) All permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall provide a signed statement certifying that the weapon(s) or ordnance have not been fired or discharged on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012).
(2) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall maintain current records of any public displays during the term year on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012), or a computer generated printout of the same format as form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012). For each display, the records shall identify the time, place and purpose of the display.
(3) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall submit to the DOJ an annual report of any public displays.
(A) The annual report shall be submitted on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012), or a computer generated printout of the same format as form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012). The annual report shall be continuous from the prior year's renewal application annual report. The annual report shall present the time, place, device(s) displayed, and purpose of each display. Destructive devices used shall be described as prescribed by subdivision (a)(1) of this section.
(B) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices, who have disposed of their collection, shall submit to the DOJ a detailed explanation why the collection was dissolved. Permittees with no collection shall provide any rationale why the DOJ should not deny the renewal of the permit pursuant to section 4147, subdivision (a)(4) of these regulations.

11 CCR 4135
Collection of Destructive Devices.
(a) Documentation required to determine bona fide necessity for collecting destructive devices includes the following:
(1) A written statement from applicant certifying that he is a bona fide collector of destructive devices. The statement must identify the weapons or ordnance of interest to the collector and an estimate of the intended size of the collection.
(2) A written statement from applicant certifying that the weapon or ordinance will not be fired or discharged.

11 CCR 4140
General Compliance.
(a) Dangerous weapons shall only be stored in facilities, or transported in vehicles, that meet the security requirements described by section 4141 of these regulations, and that have been reported to the DOJ on form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012).
(b) Form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012) will require the licensee/permittee to provide the following information:
(1) The phone number and physical address of all primary and, if applicable, secondary security compliant storage locations.
(2) The year, make, model, and vehicle identification or license plate number(s), of all security compliant vehicles and trailers.
(3) Statement that all locations and vehicles meet security requirements.
(4) Date and signature of licensee/permittee, attesting, under penalty of perjury, that the preceding is true.
(c) Any change to the information on security compliant storage facilities or transportation vehicles must be reported to the DOJ within 10 days on a new copy of form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012).
(d) A violation of this section establishes grounds for revocation pursuant to section 4147, subdivision (a)(5) of these regulations.

11 CCR 4141
Security Requirements.
The following is a description of required security for storing and transporting machineguns, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, assault weapons and destructive devices:
(a) Exterior Building Security Requirements
(1) All perimeter doors to the building shall be solid core and have dead-bolt locks or the equivalent. Sliding glass doors shall have steel window guards or be connected to an audible or silent alarm to detect entry.
(2) All direct entries into the interior storage room from the exterior of the building, including windows and skylights, require steel window guards (not recommended for private residences), or audible, silent or sonic alarm to detect entry, or 24-hour security guard service.
(3) If the dangerous weapon(s) will be stored at a location different from the principal place of business, or at the applicant's residence and that residence is rented/leased, the applicant shall submit written approval from the owner and the location shall meet all specified exterior and interior security requirements.
(4) When the size of the weapon(s) prohibits storage in a residence or room of a business, the weapon shall be permanently secured to prohibit easy removal, and the firing mechanism and any ammunition shall be removed and stored in a separate locked room, cabinet, or box in an area separate from the storage area for the weapon.
(b) Interior Building Security Requirements
(1) The weapon(s) shall be stored in a separate room away from any general living area or work area. Destructive device collectors may display historic, antique or curio weapons in a general living or work area provided such weapons have been disabled by removal of firing mechanisms which shall be stored separately in a safe or equivalent high security storage area.
(2) All doors leading into the storage room shall be solid core with a dead-bolt lock or the equivalent and be locked while unattended, or the weapon(s) shall be stored in an anchored, locked metal box in the room. Anchored is defined as permanently mounted to the floor or having a gross weight of 1,000 pounds or more so that heavy equipment or tools would be required to remove the box.
(3) Any ammunition shall be removed and stored in a separate and locked room, cabinet or box away from the storage area for the weapon. Ammunition may be stored with a weapon if locked in a safe.
(c) Security Requirements for Transporting Machineguns, Assault Weapons and Short-Barreled Shotguns/Rifles
(1) Machineguns, assault weapons, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles shall be transported in a locked metal container or the equivalent which is bolted to the floor of the vehicle's trunk or securely fastened to the floor in the passenger compartment of the vehicle to prevent unauthorized access. The vehicle shall be locked at all times while unattended.
(2) All locking devices shall be in good operating condition.
(d) Security Requirements for Transporting Destructive Devices
(1) When size or quantity of the weapon(s) permits storage inside the vehicle:
(A) The weapon(s) shall be transported either concealed in the locked storage area of the vehicle, or in a locked metal box or the equivalent which is bolted to the floor of the vehicle. The vehicle shall be locked at all times while unattended.
(B) All locking devices shall be in good operating condition.
(2) When size or quantity of the weapon(s) prohibits storage inside the vehicle:
(A) If the weapon is transported exposed on a pick-up truck or other vehicle, a locking device connecting the weapon to the vehicle is required. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(B) If the weapon is transported on a trailer, the weapon shall be locked to the trailer and the trailer locked to the vehicle at all times while unattended. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(C) If the weapon is mounted on its own axle, the trailer hitch or tongue shall have a locking device connected to the vehicle at all times while unattended. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(D) If a padlock is used to secure a weapon, it shall be secured with a high security, case-hardened, large shackle padlock which is in good operating condition.
(E) A special event permit may be granted to historical societies, civic organizations or collectors requesting such permits to waive transportation security requirements for the purpose of allowing the authentic display of historic, antique, curio destructive devices in patriotic, historic, civic or cultural events.

[Quiet]

forgot to add...

Also...
The collector/collecting "good cause" for issuance of a CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a DD is not limited C&R DDs.

So, you can obtain modern DDs using this "good cause" for issuance.

[Cactus_Tim]

Yes, the Lahti is nice.
But I'd rather have a Solothurn.

[Cessnapilot89]

I am currently planning a move to Nebraska just for the opportunity to buy a Lahti. Been lusting after one since I was 18.

[pitfighter]

CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a DD can be acquired with a "good cause" of collecting. [11 CCR 4128(c)(4) & 11 CCR 4135]

However...
... as a condition of the collector "good cause", you can not legally shoot the DD in CA.
... you still need to comply with the registration, storage, and transportation requirements for Dangerous Weapons.
... you need to pay an annual fee to maintain the validity of your Dangerous Weapons Permit.


11 CCR 4128
General.
(a) Except as provided in sections 30900 through 30945, 31050, 31055, and 31100 of the Penal Code, no person shall possess, transport, or sell any dangerous weapon in this state unless he/she has been granted a license and/or permit pursuant to these regulations.
(b) No license or permit shall be issued to any applicant who fails to establish good cause for such license or permit and that such license or permit would not endanger the public safety.
(c) To establish good cause, an applicant must provide the DOJ with clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit and that the applicant can satisfy that need without endangering public safety. Except as provided by Penal Code section 33300, good causes recognized by the DOJ to establish a bona fide necessity for issuance of dangerous weapons licenses or permits include the following:
(4) Possession for the purpose of maintaining a collection of destructive devices as defined in Penal Code section 16460 but such possession shall not be allowed for short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, machineguns or assault weapons.
(d) No license or permit shall be issued to any applicant who fails to comply with local zoning restrictions or local fire-protective services regulations or ordinances.
(e) The DOJ shall provide a notice of each license or permit issued to the Chief of Police or Sheriff having jurisdiction over the licensee or permittee's location. Copies of outstanding licenses and permits shall be provided to the Chief or Sheriff of jurisdiction upon request.

11 CCR 4130
Record Keeping.
(e) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall provide a signed statement that the weapon(s) or ordnance were not fired or discharged. Permittees authorized to publicly display their destructive device inventory shall maintain records of when their collection was put on display.
(1) All permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall provide a signed statement certifying that the weapon(s) or ordnance have not been fired or discharged on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012).
(2) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall maintain current records of any public displays during the term year on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012), or a computer generated printout of the same format as form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012). For each display, the records shall identify the time, place and purpose of the display.
(3) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices shall submit to the DOJ an annual report of any public displays.
(A) The annual report shall be submitted on form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012), or a computer generated printout of the same format as form BOF 026 (Rev. 01/2012). The annual report shall be continuous from the prior year's renewal application annual report. The annual report shall present the time, place, device(s) displayed, and purpose of each display. Destructive devices used shall be described as prescribed by subdivision (a)(1) of this section.
(B) Permittees authorized to collect destructive devices, who have disposed of their collection, shall submit to the DOJ a detailed explanation why the collection was dissolved. Permittees with no collection shall provide any rationale why the DOJ should not deny the renewal of the permit pursuant to section 4147, subdivision (a)(4) of these regulations.

11 CCR 4135
Collection of Destructive Devices.
(a) Documentation required to determine bona fide necessity for collecting destructive devices includes the following:
(1) A written statement from applicant certifying that he is a bona fide collector of destructive devices. The statement must identify the weapons or ordnance of interest to the collector and an estimate of the intended size of the collection.
(2) A written statement from applicant certifying that the weapon or ordinance will not be fired or discharged.

11 CCR 4140
General Compliance.
(a) Dangerous weapons shall only be stored in facilities, or transported in vehicles, that meet the security requirements described by section 4141 of these regulations, and that have been reported to the DOJ on form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012).
(b) Form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012) will require the licensee/permittee to provide the following information:
(1) The phone number and physical address of all primary and, if applicable, secondary security compliant storage locations.
(2) The year, make, model, and vehicle identification or license plate number(s), of all security compliant vehicles and trailers.
(3) Statement that all locations and vehicles meet security requirements.
(4) Date and signature of licensee/permittee, attesting, under penalty of perjury, that the preceding is true.
(c) Any change to the information on security compliant storage facilities or transportation vehicles must be reported to the DOJ within 10 days on a new copy of form BOF 045 (Rev. 01/2012).
(d) A violation of this section establishes grounds for revocation pursuant to section 4147, subdivision (a)(5) of these regulations.

11 CCR 4141
Security Requirements.
The following is a description of required security for storing and transporting machineguns, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, assault weapons and destructive devices:
(a) Exterior Building Security Requirements
(1) All perimeter doors to the building shall be solid core and have dead-bolt locks or the equivalent. Sliding glass doors shall have steel window guards or be connected to an audible or silent alarm to detect entry.
(2) All direct entries into the interior storage room from the exterior of the building, including windows and skylights, require steel window guards (not recommended for private residences), or audible, silent or sonic alarm to detect entry, or 24-hour security guard service.
(3) If the dangerous weapon(s) will be stored at a location different from the principal place of business, or at the applicant's residence and that residence is rented/leased, the applicant shall submit written approval from the owner and the location shall meet all specified exterior and interior security requirements.
(4) When the size of the weapon(s) prohibits storage in a residence or room of a business, the weapon shall be permanently secured to prohibit easy removal, and the firing mechanism and any ammunition shall be removed and stored in a separate locked room, cabinet, or box in an area separate from the storage area for the weapon.
(b) Interior Building Security Requirements
(1) The weapon(s) shall be stored in a separate room away from any general living area or work area. Destructive device collectors may display historic, antique or curio weapons in a general living or work area provided such weapons have been disabled by removal of firing mechanisms which shall be stored separately in a safe or equivalent high security storage area.
(2) All doors leading into the storage room shall be solid core with a dead-bolt lock or the equivalent and be locked while unattended, or the weapon(s) shall be stored in an anchored, locked metal box in the room. Anchored is defined as permanently mounted to the floor or having a gross weight of 1,000 pounds or more so that heavy equipment or tools would be required to remove the box.
(3) Any ammunition shall be removed and stored in a separate and locked room, cabinet or box away from the storage area for the weapon. Ammunition may be stored with a weapon if locked in a safe.
(c) Security Requirements for Transporting Machineguns, Assault Weapons and Short-Barreled Shotguns/Rifles
(1) Machineguns, assault weapons, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles shall be transported in a locked metal container or the equivalent which is bolted to the floor of the vehicle's trunk or securely fastened to the floor in the passenger compartment of the vehicle to prevent unauthorized access. The vehicle shall be locked at all times while unattended.
(2) All locking devices shall be in good operating condition.
(d) Security Requirements for Transporting Destructive Devices
(1) When size or quantity of the weapon(s) permits storage inside the vehicle:
(A) The weapon(s) shall be transported either concealed in the locked storage area of the vehicle, or in a locked metal box or the equivalent which is bolted to the floor of the vehicle. The vehicle shall be locked at all times while unattended.
(B) All locking devices shall be in good operating condition.
(2) When size or quantity of the weapon(s) prohibits storage inside the vehicle:
(A) If the weapon is transported exposed on a pick-up truck or other vehicle, a locking device connecting the weapon to the vehicle is required. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(B) If the weapon is transported on a trailer, the weapon shall be locked to the trailer and the trailer locked to the vehicle at all times while unattended. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(C) If the weapon is mounted on its own axle, the trailer hitch or tongue shall have a locking device connected to the vehicle at all times while unattended. The locking mechanism shall be able to resist common tools such as bolt cutters, hammers and cold chisels.
(D) If a padlock is used to secure a weapon, it shall be secured with a high security, case-hardened, large shackle padlock which is in good operating condition.
(E) A special event permit may be granted to historical societies, civic organizations or collectors requesting such permits to waive transportation security requirements for the purpose of allowing the authentic display of historic, antique, curio destructive devices in patriotic, historic, civic or cultural events.

Ah - but you are simplifying it

I have not met anyone who has the DWP's (permit's in plural form, as it is more than one permit) for his hobby - but your above post is enlightening, and I would be very curious to hear of anyone who has - acquiring the DWP is a problematic process, and can be quite taxing (even to filmmakers like myself), unless you keep the permits solely for rental with no standing inventory.

Anyone remember Michael Cimino's first film as director?
Thunderbolt and Lightfoot -
They used a 20mm Oereklon to rob a bank vault.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_and_Lightfoot

[Hoologan]

Ironic considering I'm reading Unintended Consequences right now....

That is all.