Another C&R proceedure question

[savasyn]

Having just skimmed the wonderful article posted by bdgfate on FFL interactions with the BATF, I have a question about being an 03 holder. Do we have to display our licenses in our homes? I completely understand why an 01 would have to display, as they are doing business, but as we are not businesses, I wasn't sure. Anyone know?

Oh, and just to get confirmation on something that I'm 99.9% sure about: We do NOT have to log antique(pre-1899) rifles in our books, correct? Just verifying that pre-1899 items are not considered "firearms" and therefore do not need to be logged.

Thanks!

[Fate]

Glad you enjoyed that article. Probably should have posted it in the 2ndAmendment, Laws, Politics forum though.

There is no license display requirement for 03FFL holders.

And antiques are not considered firearms by the BATFE, and thus not subject to records keeping requirements. That said, I always included antiques (such as Finn Mosins built on antique receivers) in my bound book upon acquisition just in case. I then logged it out as ANTIQUE in the disposal section. Probably more than is required or needed, but I didn't want any questions, especially when some of my "antiques" have post 1898-dated barrels on them (again, Finnish Mosins).

[savasyn]

Cool, thanks!
Mosins are what I'm thinking about, actually. The later dates on the barrels could be confusing.

When you log them out, do you list your name as the recipient? How about dates, in and out on the same date?

[finfan]

Cool, thanks!
Mosins are what I'm thinking about, actually. The later dates on the barrels could be confusing.

When you log them out, do you list your name as the recipient? How about dates, in and out on the same date?

With Mosins that are import marked use the importers assigned serial # on the receiver. If not import marked copy the serial # exactly with the cryllic letters included.
When you aquire a firearm list the date of aquisition, your name & address or name & license #. When you dispose of firearm- date of disposition, name & address of recipient, DOB, & DL or other ID. Be uniform and consistent with all entries (neatness counts). In an audit the only numbers or markings the ATF is concerned about are on the receiver.

[savasyn]

With Mosins that are import marked use the importers assigned serial # on the receiver. If not import marked copy the serial # exactly with the cryllic letters included.
When you aquire a firearm list the date of aquisition, your name & address or name & license #. When you dispose of firearm- date of disposition, name & address of recipient, DOB, & DL or other ID. Be uniform and consistent with all entries (neatness counts). In an audit the only numbers or markings the ATF is concerned about are on the receiver.

Thanks for the info. Always good to clarify such things, especially about which serial number to use.

To be clear on my previous question, I was asking bdgfate how he listed the dispositions of his antiques given that he chooses to log them in and them out. I understand what is needed for regular C&R items.

Thanks!

[finfan]

If bdgfate is audited, the agent is gonna want to know why information in his bound book is improperly entered.
Not good in their eyes.

[EOD Guy]

If bdgfate is audited, the agent is gonna want to know why information in his bound book is improperly entered.
Not good in their eyes.

When I received approval for a computerized bound book, the letter from BATF stated that while it was not required, I could log antique firearms if I desired.

[finfan]

When I received approval for a computerized bound book, the letter from BATF stated that while it was not required, I could log antique firearms if I desired.

If you wish to log antiques (I wouldn't) that's your choice. Just don't log them out if your still in possession of them. The record keeping requirements are clear and specific. By deviating, the data in fate's bound book is now questionable.

[Fate]

By deviating, the data in fate's bound book is now questionable.

Actually, I have no data in my bound book anymore. My 03FFL expired.

I'm free.

[Fate]

If bdgfate is audited, the agent is gonna want to know why information in his bound book is improperly entered.
Not good in their eyes.

Actually my antique Finn Mosins were not improperly entered. When purchased, I generally did not know they were antiques as the receiver date is only visible when the action is removed from the stock. Once I discovered they were indeed antiques, I logged them out*. Since the bound book requirements dictate new acquisitions must be logged immediately, what choice did I have?

*Though now that I think about it, I didn't really log them out in the disposition section. Rather, I just wrote ANTIQUE and the receiver date.

But like I said, it's moot. My book is gone now that I'm no longer licensed. I was never audited so I don't know for sure if an agent would have taken issue with my book or not (and neither do you )

[finfan]

Actually my antique Finn Mosins were not improperly entered. When purchased, I generally did not know they were antiques as the receiver date is only visible when the action is removed from the stock. Once I discovered they were indeed antiques, I logged them out*. Since the bound book requirements dictate new acquisitions must be logged immediately, what choice did I have?

*Though now that I think about it, I didn't really log them out in the disposition section. Rather, I just wrote ANTIQUE and the receiver date.

But like I said, it's moot. My book is gone now that I'm no longer licensed. I was never audited so I don't know for sure if an agent would have taken issue with my book or not (and neither do you )

Okay, I was going to pick up my ball & go home... until your edit. I was audited last week & i'm sure (based on your initial post) that (had it happened) your audit would have been.......in the least......ALOT LONGER THAN MINE!!! But, like you say "it's all moot!"... for you anyways! Your not licensed! LOL! I'm no know it all, sorry if I'm coming across that way. I didn't really (& i mean REALLY) study the books sent with the license until inspection was coming. Sure, I read allot of the material before...but well (you know). I think maybe I fell into the- "it's just an 03" mentality. This is a Federal Firearms License. Read the books, most questions are answered there. If that fails, call or write the ATF for clarification. Don't rely on erroneous info from me or anyone on the net. It's all good, fate.
happy collecting everyone!

[Fate]

Haha finfan, I didn't mind the critique. It's a tricky, rule-ensconced thing to be Federally licensed. Especially nowadays when it seems more people ARE getting audited. Part of the benefit of calguns is that members do a pretty good job at keeping people from spreading misinformation or even correct info that could have other ramifications.

You have a post on the forums describing your recent audit? I'd be interested in hearing how it went.