California Firearms Licensee Check System

[bigbossman]

Ok - so I know that to receive a C&R from out of state directly, I need both an 03 FFL and a COE.

But a potential seller is asking me for a "CFLCS" number if I want to buy his rifle. I never heard of it, so I did a Google and came up with this:

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview

I'm a bit confused by this - do we need to register with this system as well or are we exempt? Or, does the shipping party need to register?

[Mustang]

Ok - so I know that to receive a C&R from out of state directly, I need both an 03 FFL and a COE.

But a potential seller is asking me for a "CFLCS" number if I want to buy his rifle. I never heard of it, so I did a Google and came up with this:

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview

I'm a bit confused by this - do we need to register with this system as well or are we exempt? Or, does the shipping party need to register?

The California Firearms License Check System (CFLCS) does not apply to 03FFL long gun transactions.

I have had a fair amount of luck with a response worded like this...

Dear XXXX,

Here are some links to the California Department of Justice Firearms
Division website that documents that the California Firearms Licensee
Check (CFLC) system does not apply to C&R long gun transactions.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php (states in the first
paragraph "other than 03 and 06 FFL's")

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php (question #4 in the FAQ's asks if
any California FFL's are exempt from the new law and answer is "Yes. The
CFLC program does not apply to FFLs with Type 03 (curio and relic
collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) licenses.")

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/2008-BOF-05.pdf (bulletin issued
explaining new program. first paragraph states "information contained
herein does not apply to type 03 (curio and relic) and type 06 FFL's)

[bigbossman]

Thanks!

Your 3rd link didn't work, but on the second link you mentioned Question 4:

4.Are any California FFLs exempt from the CFLC verification approval requirement?
Yes. The CFLC program does not apply to shipments made by Type 03 (curio and relic collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) FFLs.

This is what is hanging the guy up. He's an 01 FFL. If I can't move him, I'll just move on.

[Mustang]

Here is the bulletin

http://www.mostlyreadingya.com/read-file/edmund-g-brown-jr-attorney-general-california-department-of-pdf-274744/

[GOEX FFF]

Thanks!

Your 3rd link didn't work, but on the second link you mentioned Question 4:

4.Are any California FFLs exempt from the CFLC verification approval requirement?
Yes. The CFLC program does not apply to shipments made by Type 03 (curio and relic collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) FFLs.

This is what is hanging the guy up. He's an 01 FFL. If I can't move him, I'll just move on.

This happened to me a while ago too. I provided the same info for an out-of-state 01 FFL for a C&R long gun. And while he gathered correctly that 03 FFL's are exempt from the CFLC program, he insisted that it meant (by his own reading) that the CFLC exemption were only shipments made between 03 FFL's to 03 FFL's only. A little time went on and I assumed he called the CA-DOJ to ask or did his own research since the rifle was shipped out eventually.

The FAQ really should be more clear about this. All it would take is two words like -
"The CFLC program does not apply to shipments made to or by Type 03 (curio and relic collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) FFLs."

[Bobby Ricigliano]

The California Firearms License Check System (CFLCS) does not apply to 03FFL long gun transactions.

I have had a fair amount of luck with a response worded like this...

Dear XXXX,

Here are some links to the California Department of Justice Firearms
Division website that documents that the California Firearms Licensee
Check (CFLC) system does not apply to C&R long gun transactions.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php (states in the first
paragraph "other than 03 and 06 FFL's")

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php (question #4 in the FAQ's asks if
any California FFL's are exempt from the new law and answer is "Yes. The
CFLC program does not apply to FFLs with Type 03 (curio and relic
collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) licenses.")

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/2008-BOF-05.pdf (bulletin issued
explaining new program. first paragraph states "information contained
herein does not apply to type 03 (curio and relic) and type 06 FFL's)

All of this is true. Unfortunately I have encountered several sellers online who simply don't want to bother reading or looking into CFLC. Others will charge extra for having to read through that. When you live in CA, part #1 is finding a good deal on what you want. Part # 2 is finding out if they will even bother sending it here with all of the additional nonsense added by the .gov

[bigbossman]

All of this is true. Unfortunately I have encountered several sellers online who simply don't want to bother reading or looking into CFLC. Others will charge extra for having to read through that. When you live in CA, part #1 is finding a good deal on what you want. Part # 2 is finding out if they will even bother sending it here with all of the additional nonsense added by the .gov

Yeah.... Well, I found the gun I've been looking for, and couldn't get the guy to move off of needing the number. I can't really blame him - if I were on the other side of the fence, I might well decide CA is too much trouble and write it off, altogether.

In any case - I wanted the gun, so the expeditious thing to do was use an 01 FFL to get it here. I'm not going to lose a desirable addition to my collection over a $50 transfer fee and a 10 day waiting period, and I'm certainly not about to give up on bringing it in and capitulating to the gestapo leftists.

Either way, the gun has to get DROS'ed/registered, so now it's headed my way.

[Mustang]

What kind of gun was it?

[bigbossman]

What kind of gun was it?

Winchester Model 1892 rifle (not carbine) with octagon barrel and purported to be original and not refinished. Made in 1907, so not an antique.

Had it been a more pedestrian, say - garden variety Mosin or Mauser, I would have walked and found another. My curse is that I've gotten to the point in my collecting that I'm particular in what I'm looking for, and when I find it I do what I can to reel it in (within reason).

I had just lost a nice 1892 rifle with tang sights at an auction (real auction, not Gunbroker), and had this one on the back-burner for a week (saw an ad for it on GunsInternational) in case I missed the first. I did miss the first, and ended up getting this gun for considerably less than the hammer price + "winner premium" of the 1st one.

If it is as described and as it looked in the pictures, I think I'm going to be pretty happy with it and will forget the extra $50 soon enough.

[Mustang]

Winchester Model 1892 rifle (not carbine) with octagon barrel and purported to be original and not refinished. Made in 1907, so not an antique.

Very nice. What caliber?

[bigbossman]

Very nice. What caliber?

25-20. Everyone is chasing the 44 caliber ones, and the prices reflect that. If you go for a different caliber, you can get a nicer example for the money spent. I already have a 92 saddle ring carbine in 25-20 that I reload for, so I wanted a nicer example/variation, only rifle.

The carbine may or may not be up for sale. I'll decide that in the coming months.

[Mustang]

Sounds very nice

[Bobby Ricigliano]

On a hard to find or obscure item, I can see where it is worth taking the FFL01 hit.

[Discogodfather]

These days before I buy anything my first question is about the CFLCS. I don't have COE or FFL03.

For those that don't already know the CFLCS system is intended for California, as a State, to keep track of guns coming in and out of California. I am not sure about pistols, but for long guns there is no real designation other than it being a long gun, meaning they don't care what it actually is.

The CFLCS is free and takes about 1 minute to sign up for online. Then the FFL is enrolled, he sends a request to ship a firearm and then the system responds with a something called an AI number, which is the actual shipping consent from the State.

The AI number is technically the only thing the FFL needs to ship. Some talk of a "letter", which is what they call the screen that is presented to the FFL with the AI number. You do not need the letter, you only need the AI number. I got into an argument with an FFL when he refused to start paperwork on a pistol that had an AI number printed on the box. He wanted the "letter". It's not required!

[Eddie1965]

It's happened to me 3 times on Gunbroker; but luckily, knock on wood, all of those times the shippers were satisfied once I sent them the DOJ link.