The Case Against the Mosin Nagant

[Spartan301]

Finnish Mosin-Nagant

Most were non-captures. They were Finn/contract made barrels built to Finnish tolerances on Russian (sometimes American in the case of Remington) receivers and parts with Finnish stocks.

Correct, that is what I have read also. My m/39 SA & VKT marked Type 1 Hexagonal receiver is well made, probably the most accurate surplus rifle I own. ( I also have two Lee-Enfields a Yugo M48, SA M1 Garand, Arisaka T38, Arisaka T99, SA 1903, Yugo M59/66 and a Yugo M70AB2 )

A paragraph from Terence W. Lapin's book, The Mosin-Nagant Rifle;
"The Finns did not manufacture a Mosin-Nagant receiver as they had huge stocks of Russian receivers on hand. To all intents and purposes only Type 1 Hexagonal receivers were used on Finnish rifles, as these were the only ones in stock up to the Winter War of 1939-40. Even after Russia attacked Finland on November 30, 1939, they remained sufficient quantities of hexagonal receivers in the Finish inventory to preclude the need to manufacture any.

Note: Some Finnish m/91-30s and a few m/39s were fabricated with rounded receivers captured from the Russians, but these are the exception.

[repo4sale]

Every Rich Russian & American shot these historical guns & most have them in their safe!

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH Fierce using Tapatalk

[Remus]

I take less issue with the gun and more with the internet hype. Its like having a teenage sister swooning over a boy band; "Oh Sergei & Leon, I want to have your babies!!!!". Let alone that she is incapable of discussing any Eastern front battles other than Stalingrad where the handsome Vasily Zaytsev won the battle single handedly by shooting the evil German Sniper.

When someone brings in groups of the 100 dollar Big-5 Special that look like a buckshot pattern at 50 yards but is actually a sight in at 25 - she will say "what do you expect its a 100 year old rifle... - Vasily!" Her other standard defense is "Look at these groups from these Finnish Models" - A Fierro is a sports car just like a Ferrari right? She drops in how rugged her men are, yet no mention of all the other men out there have done more or less the same thing without fail. Heaven forbid if anyone attempts to modernize one of these rifles - "You just put $200 of lipstick on a $50 pig". She can raise the fact that, if this man doesn't work out for you you can try this one or this one or this one - they are cheap! If you point out to her that she just likes cheap men.... "Vasily!!"

My men can belch fire and they kick like a mule. You gotta be tough to be with them - they can reach out to 1000 yards. No mention as to how the 30-06 is a slightly more powerful cartridge - and the 303 is (supposedly) the most accurate WW2 battle rifle to 1000 yards.

Oh well - gotta live with ones sister right?
I have nothing against a true collector, I have nothing against a passionate historian. I am sick of seeing Mosins being pushed as first rifle purchases to those that have no ability to evaluate a bore or muzzle.

[Spartan301]

Yup - Couldn't have said it any better!

I was at a Big 5 a couple of years ago and saw this:

(sadly I sold it a few months ago )

And before I knew it, I had all of these:

Nice Pics! I see you have the sickness too! LOL!

[TKM]

Back in the day they cost less than a good lunch. Still pretty close.

I have a much better chance of defending myself with a Mosin than a bowl of black bean soup, small Ceasar and a NY strip MR, two Heinekens and a Jack back.

I can probably clear a room with the pointy objects found in a commercial kitchen though. Give me a half hour with the janitors closet and I can do amazing things.

[Go Navy]

I take less issue with the gun and more with the internet hype. Its like having a teenage sister swooning over a boy band; "Oh Sergei & Leon, I want to have your babies!!!!". Let alone that she is incapable of discussing any Eastern front battles other than Stalingrad where the handsome Vasily Zaytsev won the battle single handedly by shooting the evil German Sniper.

When someone brings in groups of the 100 dollar Big-5 Special that look like a buckshot pattern at 50 yards but is actually a sight in at 25 - she will say "what do you expect its a 100 year old rifle... - Vasily!" Her other standard defense is "Look at these groups from these Finnish Models" - A Fierro is a sports car just like a Ferrari right? She drops in how rugged her men are, yet no mention of all the other men out there have done more or less the same thing without fail. Heaven forbid if anyone attempts to modernize one of these rifles - "You just put $200 of lipstick on a $50 pig". She can raise the fact that, if this man doesn't work out for you you can try this one or this one or this one - they are cheap! If you point out to her that she just likes cheap men.... "Vasily!!"

My men can belch fire and they kick like a mule. You gotta be tough to be with them - they can reach out to 1000 yards. No mention as to how the 30-06 is a slightly more powerful cartridge - and the 303 is (supposedly) the most accurate WW2 battle rifle to 1000 yards.

Oh well - gotta live with ones sister right?
I have nothing against a true collector, I have nothing against a passionate historian. I am sick of seeing Mosins being pushed as first rifle purchases to those that have no ability to evaluate a bore or muzzle.

Wisdom, packaged as VERY funny humor! Well done, Remus! I'm still grinning.

[09rubicon]

I hate you all! I just read this thread and had to go get an M44. Thanks you A-holes!


I like my Mosins, and someone earlier said it perfect. They do what they were designed for well. That is be rugged, simple, and reliable with the minimal amount of effort and care. True, they are not the most accurate, or beautiful, or lightweight. None the less mine go bang every time I pull the trigger, eat any type of ammo and generally hit the target, cant really ask for much more.

[NapalmCheese]

Sure they go bang, the problem comes when you find you've just fired a round of heavy ball and now have to use a mallet to open the bolt.

[09rubicon]

Sure they go bang, the problem comes when you find you've just fired a round of heavy ball and now have to use a mallet to open the bolt.

I have never personally ever had that problem. I sort of see that as an testament to its durability though. Use your mallet (rock, bat, buddies Mosin, whatever) to open the bolt, put different ammo in and keep going. I cant think of many rifles that would still be operable after that. Then again, I have seen a jeweled "smooth as silk" Rem 700 bolt need the same treatment simply because the wind was blowing dust around and made the bolt stick.

[DirtyRussianAmmo]

Sure they go bang, the problem comes when you find you've just fired a round of heavy ball and now have to use a mallet to open the bolt.

This might help: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=763838

For your entertainment, Mosin Nagant torture test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfiXFyIbOZw

[NapalmCheese]

I have never personally ever had that problem. I sort of see that as an testament to its durability though. Use your mallet (rock, bat, buddies Mosin, whatever) to open the bolt, put different ammo in and keep going. I cant think of many rifles that would still be operable after that. Then again, I have seen a jeweled "smooth as silk" Rem 700 bolt need the same treatment simply because the wind was blowing dust around and made the bolt stick.

Either it's something to do with the lacquered cases, or it's the pressure of the round. I've not fired any other lacquer cased ammo through this particular Mosin, nor any other heavy ball. I've heard the Czech (I think) heavy ball is pretty hot. The action itself is really quite smooth, removed the cosmo with boiling water and cleaned the bolt assembly with mineral spirits (after boiling it). It just doesn't like this ammo. So far everything else has run just fine. Once I get the bolt open extraction is fine with the lacquered ammo.

I still think the Mosin Nagant rifle is essentially the adult version of the Cricket .22.

[Toyman321]

I've rung 750yrd silhouette targets consistently with my 91/30 sniper running an original Russian scope. I've stretched it out to 1000yrds without much issue.

I can't believe loud is being used as a critique for a rifle, maybe airgun forums are more your speed?

[09rubicon]

Either it's something to do with the lacquered cases, or it's the pressure of the round. I've not fired any other lacquer cased ammo through this particular Mosin, nor any other heavy ball. I've heard the Czech (I think) heavy ball is pretty hot. The action itself is really quite smooth, removed the cosmo with boiling water and cleaned the bolt assembly with mineral spirits (after boiling it). It just doesn't like this ammo. So far everything else has run just fine. Once I get the bolt extraction is fine.



I still think the Mosin Nagant rifle is essentially the adult version of the Cricket .22.

Sadly with an estimated 30-50 million made there are bound to be some bad ones. No one can really deny that.

I like your cricket analogy! I am far from believing the Mosin is the best gun ever made, but it is damn simple and durable.

[Go Navy]

I've rung 750yrd silhouette targets consistently with my 91/30 sniper running an original Russian scope. I've stretched it out to 1000yrds without much issue.

I can't believe loud is being used as a critique for a rifle, maybe airgun forums are more your speed?

Tolerance, or intolerance, for raw noise is not a manhood factor; it's just sensible. I think it's fair to say that loudness would be one of many criteria. It can be (but not always) associated with extra energy not expended inside the barrel, a barrel that is too short for the cartridge, a flash hider or compensator that one really doesn't need for a lighter caliber, or just plain too much cartridge for the mission.

Or look at the chap who ports a shotgun. More noise. Maybe he shoots better; if so, that's good for him. I shoot skeet and sporting clays with an unported shotgun; maybe I'd shoot better if I had it ported, but I'm not going to find out.

It's also part of the price paid by those who get "magnumitus".......the bigger is better syndrome. If you're really NOT going to Africa, do you really need a .470 Nitro Express for punching paper? If I can take deer or antelope with a .243, do I need a 7mm magnum? I've been on the firing line at times when I had to move away from a shooter who was firing something extremely loud. He's certainly welcome, but I'm going to try to avoid the pain and potential ear damage.

My stock FN SCAR, for example, came with a high end compensator/flash hider. The bloody thing was really loud and I wear double ear protection. I took it off, sold it, and put a thread protector on the end of the muzzle. Does 5.56 generate a lot of recoil in a semi-auto? Not at all. Who needs a compensator or even flash hider on such a rifle, other than to look cool? (And I'm not going into night combat anyway.) But hey, if someone wants to look cool, I'm not critical, I'm just saying the possibly unnecessary extra noise isn't for me.

So, maybe the other qualities of the Mosin outweigh the noise factor and if so, I respect that totally. But I maintain that loudness IS one factor a shooter might consider.

[Crunch130]

I'd like to preserve my hearing as much as possible, too. Hey, I just built a custom cabinet with air filter and cooling fan for all my 1980's fairly high end stereo equipment, and whether it's Boston or Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, I like to hear the fine details in the music!

I don't think a Mosin with a longer barrel (91/30, various Finns) is louder than any other 30 caliber rifle. You can MAKE them loud by shortening the barrel or installing a brake.

I think the shooting community needs to assess what adequate hearing protection is. Foam earplugs and headsets each provide a certain number of decibels of sound suppression. But if the guy at the next shooting station HAS to have his brake on a 243, 6.5 Creedmore, or 7 mm mag, is the traditional hearing protection enough? When the next guy's muzzle blast is going SIDEWAYS through a brake rather than DOWN RANGE where it is supposed to go, it can make a pretty miserable environment for nearby shooters.

It would be nice to know if studies have been done of peak dB's for a standard rifle barrel and then adding a brake.

Regards,
Crunch