Recently purchased VZ 52/57 Questions

[DavidEHickey]

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[Grendl]

That was SVT-40 here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=845946

I don't think it hurts the price one bit. Enjoy her!

[Discogodfather]

I don't think your rifle has been refurbed. They came factory original with either gray or black enamel paint. Refurbs usually have greenish stocks with parked dust covers, and they where almost always refurbed to convert from 45 to 39mm. If you gun is an oiginal 45mm, in that shape, with no funny business with the stock, then I would easily say $750-1000.

EDIT: Just saw it on GB, looks nice. I might bid!

[SVT-40]

It's definitely a refurb. The grey paint is one tip off that was not a original finish. Additionally it appears to have a lined out SN on the stock, and you can see where the stock has deep stains near the butt plate, and the lack of finish indicates the stock has been sanded.....

The Vz52/57's were not converted 52's they were purpose built with a different method to retain the barrel. (pinned)


Yup refurb.. From the Gun Broker pic's you can see the old stocks SN, and the new SN over stamped...Additionally there appears to be a crack in the hand guard...


Interestingly enough I received a PM from the OP a few days ago before he made this post. He was asking me asking about his rifle.....I told him it was in all likelihood a refurb, and asked him to send me pic's so I could better see his rifle..I also told him to look for line outs in the stock where a old SN would be listed...

NO reply..

Based on his GB description he is not being honest.....I also told him to take it apart to confirm it's all matching.. Nothing mentioned about matching parts in his GB description.....


His pic's from GB... Pretty selective shooting around the rifles faults.....

Buyer beware...
Renumbered stock...

Crack , or what appears to be a crack, or large gouge in the handguard....

[Grendl]

Darn. I thought the OP was keeping it. Didn't realize we were being sourced for resale hype. I've got to pay more attention to a poster's stats. 2 posts?

Also, notice the OP has color adjusted the photos. Took the green out so the stock looks more reddish.

BTW $1200 is too much and $1500 is a joke.

[SVT-40]

So because your non factual statements were revealed Grendl and I "think way to much of ourselves"....Sure...


What about the very noticeable renumbered stock?????

Your GB description never mentions that very important fact....

However you do go out of your way to boast that it's "mint"... "Possibly never been fired" and "In better shape than any I have seen online or at auction"...

All lies, as no rifle with a scrubbed and re-numbered stock could be any of those things you describe....

How about a few clear close photos of the wooden hand guard especially the top left side where it looks like there is a large crack?

You knew enough to remove the top guard? so taking the bolt, and carrier out would be simple.....

Easy to check those numbers.....to make sure they match..

After all a rifle which has "never been fired" and is "mint" should have all matching numbers....

[Grendl]

$399? Add rape to your list of crimes Mr. Hickey ;-)

Dude, chillax. So I'm a douchebag... prove me wrong, post the pictures Mr. 40 suggests. Don't mess with the color balance this time.

[Emdawg]

Hello David,

Your picture links are labeled as "custom" which indicates they have been played with in some digital manner.




Also, what they mean by "factory refurb" or "refurbishment" is that the gun had been used in service and then it was sent to the arsenal to be cleaned up. This is when the gun would have had a new finish to the stock and metal and parts would have been replaced.

Your rifle would have went through the process, by looking at it.



Also, Gunbroker is not the place to get price checks. There are a lot of fools and cheats that overprice their wares and then give false descriptions and bad or fake pictures to trick the unweary and that is what they SVT and Grendl are suspecting you of doing.

[Gutter]

Here's your first lesson in trying to sell an old rifle: take pictures of ALL serial numbers and markings. Your pictures show little to no detail and you need to get MUCH closer. All I can tell is it looks like a fairly clean rifle, but not enough to justify me submitting a $1200 opening bid.

[Discogodfather]

Yeah, I looked through the pics late last night and came to the conclusion after I saw the ghost number on the stock. Sorry, it was late. I also didn't see the opening bod set at 1200, lol.

What is the original finish on the dust cover and the forward guard supposed to be? Black paint? Or parkerize? Are the greenish stocks with the parked covers actually the originals?

[0321jarhead]

And ONLY $50 to for shipping! What a deal! And it is being shipped from New York, WOW!

Some new inexperienced collector will buy it and then learn later they got burned. Other words, it will be a learning lesson for that buyer. And that's a real cold fact.

SVT-40, I salute you sir!

[SVT-40]

SVT 40 I did not have not and will claim to be an expert on old guns.

Fair enough.. But I am....I've been involved both as a collector for over 35 years, and well as working in the firearms field for most of that time. I have worked for firearms auction companies as a appraiser, and have personally handled over 6,000 firearms sold by one particular auction company. I have also over the years worked for, or been associated with various firearms importers. I have consulted on various books, publications or internet firearms resource sites related to military firearms.I have a very extensive collection of military rifles which includes an actual un-issued Vz 52/57 rifle which was posted in this thread. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...p?t=845946Many of my rifles have been used in various publications. I was also a Law Enforcement armorer for over 15 years....

The gun to me appears as stated.

Well since you admittedly are not a expert I respect your admission... However since you do lack much firearms knowledge how can you make the claims you did? You used the terms "mint"...."possibly never been fired" and "In better shape than any I have seen online or at auction"..

Obviously you did some research... However you neglected to mention anywhere the fact that your rifle had scrubbed numbers on the stock, and had been renumbered....

Additionally you posted your rifle for sale on Gun Broker hours before you made the post here, and never indicated you were selling it....

I posted a very clear picture of the stock on gunbroker with the serial numbers clearly visible. I did not say the numbers matched. The rifle does not look fired. I did NOT say it never had. I offered my opinion and posted many pictures for people to make their own decision. The poster prior to you said he did not think it was a refurb and stated they came from the factory with black or gray enamel its easy to see were the confusion comes from.

The pictures were there, however they are not very good pic's

As for not saying the "numbers matched"... You also did not honestly include the fact that the numbers in the stock, and been scrubbed and a new SN re-stamped....

Yes you offered your "opinion"... However as you said you know little about these "old guns"....

What are you basing your information on? Do you have anything to back up your statements? If so I'd really like to see your source. Honestly.

One source... My rifle...Compare it to yours... Notice the clear images....Look at the stock... as well as the metal...

Now if you want take some clear pic's of your rifle and post them so we can compare the two side by side....

But to call a new poster out and call him dishonest is just in bad taste. And as far as all numbers matching I have read were its rare to find any VZ 52/57 with all matching numbers. And to be honest I figured any serious buyer would know more than me and ask any questions that concerned them. Have a good day!

It's not "bad taste" to point out "untruths"... Additionally I offered to assist you when you sent me a PM....Which was also I now find out after you had already listed the rifle on GB....


See below... I warned you regarding the paint as being indicative of a re-build, and also warned you regarding the numbers being "sanded and new numbers stamped"....


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEHickey
Good Afternoon!
Sorry to bother you but I was reading an older post you made a couple of months ago and it seems you know a little about the VZ 52/57's I recently bought one and I'm getting mixed feedback on whether its a Factory gun or if its been worked on. I'm going to post some pics on the curio and relic forum. The main thing in question is the gun looks like its in mint condition but the bolt and hand guard appear to have a gray paint type finish on them. Anyhow I'd appreciate any feed back you could give me.
Thanks
David


My response....
No problem....The grey paint is usually indicative of a factory rebuild...You would have to disassemble the rifle to check for matching numbers.. In addition look closely on the stock to see if any old numbers were sanded of, and the new numbers stamped...

Send me some pic's if you can. They are neat rifles!!!



Now that you are aware of your rifles "issues" the honorable thing to do would be to modify your Gun Broker description to include the stock issue, and remove your opinion as to the rifle being "un-fired"..

A more honest description would be "Not matching, with a re-numbered stock"...

[Grendl]

Mine has the greenish wood with black paint and appears mint.

I'm confused because I thought the black hand guard was original but just heard the green is sign of a refurb. Maybe they didn't always use gray paint? I'm waiting for an expert to weigh in

[SVT-40]

Yeah, I looked through the pics late last night and came to the conclusion after I saw the ghost number on the stock. Sorry, it was late. I also didn't see the opening bod set at 1200, lol.

What is the original finish on the dust cover and the forward guard supposed to be? Black paint? Or parkerize? Are the greenish stocks with the parked covers actually the originals?

See below....Pic's are often better than a description.. Yes on the black heavy paint on the front guard in front of the top wood, and on the receiver cover....The bolt carrier a dark Park, almost black...The stocks should be the ugly green shiny finish....

And ONLY $50 to for shipping! What a deal! And it is being shipped from New York, WOW!

Some new inexperienced collector will buy it and then learn later they got burned. Other words, it will be a learning lesson for that buyer. And that's a real cold fact.

SVT-40, I salute you sir!

Thanks... Believe me I really hate outing fakes... But when they are purported as "mint" "un-fired" Ect. I have to say something...

I would hate to see as you said a inexperienced collector get burned buying a "turd".....

I got burned many many times in my youth, even when buying stuff in person...

Now with the net it';s so easy to hype a turd, and post less than clear pic's and rip off some unsuspecting new collector....


We can hope that the OP, and seller of this rifle will edit his GB description to reflect what he learned...

That will make him a honorable person, and if he does so I will salute him....

If not then his true intentions will be revealed...

[SVT-40]

One good way to look for re-furbs is to look carefully at the various different parts on each rifle...many of the parts were many by sub contractors, and when finished originally will have slightly different colors.

Look at the pic's below. The bayonet, hand guard retainer, barrel, front sight base, sight hood, muzzle nut, rear sight ladder, rear sight slider, bolt carrier handle, locking lugs. All have slightly different colors of park or finish... Also notice the neat and bright chrome ring around the muzzle. All are indicative of originality, as a refurb would be of one uniform color....

Also on the collage pic all the markings and proofs are clear, and have very sharp edges. Some were if you look closely stamped after the finish was applied so you can see the bare metal underneath...