Black Powder Guns

[DennisCA]

Other than my own personal inventory sheet, do I need to log them into my C&R book?

[Eljay]

If it doesn't take a fixed cartridge - muzzleloaders, cap and ball - they're legally antiques Federally and not firearms. Black powder cartridge guns it would depend on the year they were made.

[Whiterabbit]

unless they are inlines, in which case, gotta involve your FFL. But the antique ignition locks (flint, cap, match, etc) are GTG.

Or at least were on 12-30-13, I don't know about today. I assume no change? It will be a sad day when we cannot buy a flintlock over the counter, no ID, cash and carry.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Wait, why would you need to involve an FFL for an inline? They are muzzle loaders, and not considered to be firearms by the ATF. There is no FFL needed.

-Mb

[Whiterabbit]

because inlines ARE considered firearms. It's caplocks and traditional muzzleloaders that are not considered firearms. You don't have to believe me. If you go buy a Handi rifle inline or a TC inline of any kind and go cash and carry from the guy, I'm sure you'll not likely ever get caught.

[Whiterabbit]

OK, I see now, you got me:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/0205fflnewsletter.pdf

MUZZLE LOADING FIREARMS

We frequently receive questions concerning the sale
of modern in-line muzzle loading rifles. Several
years ago ATF determined that an in-line muzzle
loading rifle using #209 shotgun primers for
ignition was not an antique firearm and was subject
to all provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA).
However, the GCA was amended in 1998 and
many in-line muzzle loading rifles are now antique
firearms and are excluded from the provisions of
the GCA.

As defined in section 921(a)(16) of Title 18, U.S.C.
the term “antique firearm” means –

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a
matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or
similar type of ignition system)
manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in
subparagraph (A) if such replica —
(i)is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed
ammunition, or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
fixed ammunition which is no longer
manufactured in the United States and which
is not readily available in the ordinary channels
of commercial trade; or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading
shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is
designed to use black powder, or a black
powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed
ammunition. For purposes of this
subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall
not include any weapon which incorporates a
firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is
converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any
muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing
the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any
combination thereof.
Many modern in-line muzzleloaders including those
that use #209 shotgun primers for ignition now meet
the definition of “antique firearm” and are excluded
from the provisions of the GCA. However, there are
some muzzleloaders that are still firearms subject to
GCA controls. For example, firearms which can be
switched from muzzleloaders to breechloaders by
exchanging the barrel are still GCA firearms. In
addition, a modern firearm that is altered to function as
a muzzleloader is still a firearm.

The following are some examples of muzzleloaders
that are still GCA firearms:

Thompson Center G2 Contender 209-45
Thompson Center Encore 209-50
The H&R 1871 Huntsman
Rossi S50
Mauser 98 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Remington 870 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Mossberg 500 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel

Although antique firearms are not subject to GCA
controls, dealers should be aware that ammunition,
including shotgun primers, is still subject to GCA
controls. Persons who are otherwise prohibited from
possessing firearms may purchase and possess antique
firearms; however, such persons are still prohibited
from possessing and receiving ammunition, including
shotgun primers, as provided in sections 922(g) and (n)
of the GCA respectively. Such persons may possess
ammunition for antique firearms such as percussion
caps, minie balls, and 50 pounds or less of black
powder for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.

Antique firearms are still subject to whatever State laws
and local ordinances may apply.

[Whiterabbit]

relevant sections are bolded by me. I stand corrected. My previous source was NRA-ILA info from 1997.

[Whiterabbit]

Actually, this snippet is fantastic. It states under federal law that prohibited persons may own and shoot caplocks.

[GOEX FFF]

Actually, this snippet is fantastic. It states under federal law that prohibited persons may own and shoot caplocks.

Right, but CA still recognizes antiques and muzzle loaders as firearms.
They're just exempt from FFL transfer. So in CA, a prohibited person could not.

[Whiterabbit]

well that's too bad.

[Eljay]

You'll see in the news occasionally where some prohibited person will take a hunting trip to the wrong state and get an unpleasant surprise when they find out they're locally prohibited from owning even a muzzleloader. If you're in that situation you have to be really careful about that stuff when crossing state lines.