Swiss K31 problems

[Flyin Brian]

I was told by a good friend and shooting partner before he passed that the individual solider did not remove the action from the stock ever. This was a higher level depot action done only by second level armorer skilled at bedding/fitting the action. He was Swiss and a master marksman and advanced collector. His book collection on Swiss arms and shooting skills covered a whole wall and his father was a Swiss trained marksman and served in the USA in the 10th Mountain Division in WW2. Be careful and good luck.

RIP Kari Prager.

Small world. Kari was a great guy and helped me get a lot of issues straightened out on my iron sight shooting skills.

[knucklehead0202]

You are certainly the only person I have ever heard that wanted to "fix" a Swiss trigger pull so it felt more like a Mosin's.

I know right? what the?

[Guisan]

[QUOTE=mj1;13261919]I was told by a good friend and shooting partner before he passed that the individual solider did not remove the action from the stock ever. This was a higher level depot action done only by second level armorer skilled at bedding/fitting the action.

That is not correct, check the military manual, what would you have done when your rifle had been all wet because of wading through a river or similar, sending it back to the arsenal ?
Manual;

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/english_k11_k31_manual.pdf

[Latigo]

This is all on your own Swiss Rifle sticky up above.

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"When in correct mechanical condition not one of them requires undue force to cycle. Extraction is crisp and smooth, and running a correctly profiled cartridge into battery is smooth, effortless and a few at most requiring a solid push for the last 1/16" of bolt travel.

If your bolt is clean and your cartridges properly sized, seat depth correct for the rifle you'll have no problem running a cartridge smoothly into battery. If you have to slap them in or out, you have a problem and one most likely easily solved."


Go to post #7

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=528460

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I can only wonder what would make anyone think that only an armorer was qualified to disassemble a Swiss rifle.

[OpenSightsOnly]

Reassembled my K31 and now have some problems

I disassembled it last month so I could clean it. Well, never got around to cleaning it, so reassembled it just now

First, putting the trigger guard plate back in was very difficult. It's almost like the wood has shrunk. The plate cutout seemed like it was just too small

Next it was a devil trying to get the tang screw back in. It seems that the angle of that screw hole had changed just enough to make it very difficult to get in. After some careful fanagling, I got it back in

Then I tried to rack the bolt, and it takes a decent jerk to get it to rotate (extract) and then it's fine. Go to close it and it's hard to finish it's cycle (getting a round set into battery). If that's confusing, imagine a normal bolt. Ok, it's having trouble with lifting the bolt or closing the bolt (best example I can give) Upon quicker cycling, it seems to be fine. If I try to do it slow, it almost doesn't want to open unless I try to cycle it quickly

I have no ammo to even see what would happen then, but w/e

Lastly, the trigger has 3/8" slop in in Was told this is a normal 2 stage trigger feel

When I first got it, I'm pretty sure the bolt was smooth throughout (maybe a bit of normal tightness upon open or closing, I actually can't recall), and I don't remember having slop in the trigger

Being so hard to put back together, could having it out disassembled for a month have jacked it up? Allowed the stock to warp? Maybe just let it sit for a few days and see if it gets better?

Are the mechanics fine/ normal sounding? Maybe get y'all a vid of the bolt and sloppy trigger?

I didn't disassemble any mechanics, just took the receiver out of the stock is all, so there's no way I assembled the trigger group wrong as I never took it apart

Ideas?

The trigger guard is like that since its designed to give the action screws tension - think of them as lock nuts.

Did you use grease to lube the bolt or grease the oprod? These rifles are designed to be lubed using grease not oil. If you don't have waffenfett, you may use lubriplate or the moly grease.

These rifles have a two stage trigger. Stage 1 is when you take up slack while stage 2 starts from consistent pressure until let off.

[Armistice]

I was hoping one of you would post

Perhaps it's me not knowing what a normal K31 bolt feels like. I'll have to take the bolt apart and clean it out. It came pre-lubed, but seems there's debris in the oils, so will see if a wipe down and re-lube will solve the problem

[Latigo]

Break the bolt down to it's component parts and clean the bolt thoroughly, dry it and use a small amount of grease (not oil) for lubing. Immerse it and soak it overnight in a cleaner if you need to. Let us know how things progress with each step.
Did you disassemble the trigger group into it's component parts? I hope not. It's not at all necessary.
Cycle the bolt in the receiver before re-mounting the stock. Let us know that it's working smoothly, but please note that k31 bolts always cycle easier with a cartridge in place.

[Armistice]

Break the bolt down to it's component parts and clean the bolt thoroughly, dry it and use a small amount of grease (not oil) for lubing. Immerse it and soak it overnight in a cleaner if you need to. Let us know how things progress with each step.
Did you disassemble the trigger group into it's component parts? I hope not. It's not at all necessary.
Cycle the bolt in the receiver before re-mounting the stock. Let us know that it's working smoothly, but please note that k31 bolts always cycle easier with a cartridge in place.

I did no disassembling of the trigger group (which is why I was wondering why it was loosey- goosey [but now know it's just the 2 stage]). I only took out the major stuff to wipe down and put my own lube on

I do have Frog Lube Grease, so will use that on the bolt

[Discogodfather]

The trigger on the K31 is a work of art, it can't get better. Well, maybe the Schmidt-Rubin is a little better. Make sure there is no oil or grease on the sear or firing pin.

I'd use synthetic grease on the K31 bolt, it needs some thick grease not frog lube.

I've taken down my K31 and 1911 down many times and it's always been a pleasure, the front barrel bands fly off and the tolerances on the inletting are, well, swiss tolerances, so it's nearly perfect. The bottom metal is a little tight fitting but it should not be a pain or anything. Is your stock numbered to the rifle?

[Armistice]

Yes, it's all matching

I recall it all came apart super easy. Maybe I'll put up some pics when I take it apart again... I dread taking it apart. Maybe I'll shoot it a little to loosen stuff up, lol

[OpenSightsOnly]

I did no disassembling of the trigger group (which is why I was wondering why it was loosey- goosey [but now know it's just the 2 stage]). I only took out the major stuff to wipe down and put my own lube on

I do have Frog Lube Grease, so will use that on the bolt

loosey-goosey trigger? There ought to be a trigger spring . . . .

The trigger is loosey-goosey if the rifle's safety is activated.

Also, the trigger is loosey-goosey after the striker or firing pin is released. That happens after the trigger is squeezed.

After the trigger is squeezed and you want to cycle the action, the bolt is going to be heavy/stiff to pull back since you are also cocking the firing pin with the mainspring in there. The resistance you are feeling relates to the spring tension.

If you can get some waffenfett that's the way to go.

[Discogodfather]

loosey-goosey trigger? There ought to be a trigger spring . . . .

The trigger is loosey-goosey if the rifle's safety is activated.

Also, the trigger is loosey-goosey after the striker or firing pin is released. That happens after the trigger is squeezed.

After the trigger is squeezed and you want to cycle the action, the bolt is going to be heavy/stiff to pull back since you are also cocking the firing pin with the mainspring in there. The resistance you are feeling relates to the spring tension.

If you can get some waffenfett that's the way to go.

It's just a simple drop down sear, when the safety (rotation of the firing pin to the safe position) is engaged the sear has nothing to touch on the firing pin and it just is "free", as if you pulling the trigger without the bolt in the gun. You can still feel the dual stages even without the firing pin in place.

Other than the condition where the firing pin is in the cocked position, there is nothing resting on the sear at any time. When the firing pin is in the "fired" position, the sear contacts the underside of the firing pin and will only pull a single, very light stage.



Only safety concern with the Swiss designs is when you chamber a live round then drop the firing pin on the round by decocking it. That's a recipe for disaster because just a light bump to the firing pin can fire the round. It's also dangerous to chamber a round, then put the rifle on safety. That rotation of the firing pin can be slippery, and it can slip out of your hands and fire when both putting it on and off. I never carry the rifle with a chambered round for this reason.

[Latigo]

Swiss soldiers in training or anticipating a situation did carry their rifles with a round chambered. They also used the very ingenious design of the safe position of the ring/firing pin. The design allowed the soldier to put the rifle back into a firing condition quietly. No click. No sound at all. The same thing hunters with k31s do.