CMP question

[2761377]

No, please allow me to fix it for you...

RTFA

" MILLER: Supreme Court to decide if buying a gun for a lawful person is a ‘straw purchase’ "

This is the problem with accepting legal opinions from people who really don't know the subject matter.

The ATF considers buying a weapon for another person to be a "straw purchase", whether the ultimate buyer is legal or not.

did you actually read the entire newspaper article you cite? here's a quote from it-

"The federal law on “straw purchases” is intended to stop a criminal from having someone who is not a felon, drug user or other miscreant that would get blocked on an FBI background check to buy a gun for him. The buyer, or “straw man,” could then be charged with perjury for lying about the identity of the of the actual purchaser."

do you realize that your Abramski case is not settled law? and that it is one of the Obama administrations' attempts to curtail lawful commerce in firearms?

in your zeal to rain on the OP's parade you have jumped the shark on the actual legal ramifications.

for some reason this motivation is especially prevalent among gun aficianados. I promised K not to fight FUD anymore, but this is just too egregious.

[Mustang]

As I've said, people are certainly free to accept legal advice from the anonymous posters on this forum.

It is cold comfort, I'm sure, for Bruce Abramski that the law which he was convicted of violating is "not settled law". As I suggested, maybe it would be prudent to wait for the Supreme Court to "settle" it before the OP goes forward with the transaction.

[Marquand]

Perhaps you should look into the speed and efficiency of becoming a citizen of the US before commenting on such.

I have no doubt that it's a genuine pain in the butt to become a citizen. But just because it's hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Is it fair? No. I became a citizen just because I was born here. The OP's friend has to do it the hard way. Welcome to the game of life. But just because I want to be a doctor and medical school is difficult and time consuming doesn't mean someone should step in and shortcut the process for me. CMP only sells to citizens. If you want a rifle from the CMP, you need to be a citizen. If you aren't a citizen, start becoming one and you'll treasure that rifle like no one else.

And for the record, when did it become acceptable to just sidestep the rules because we don't like them?

[TMB 1]

And for the record, when did it become acceptable to just sidestep the rules because we don't like them?

Sounds like a good question for California's politicians.

[Crunch130]

You guys have thrashed out the legal question. I'm going to pose the moral question with some interpolation on my part as to the purpose for existence of the CMP. So don't split hairs, I'm talking big picture here.

I'm a military veteran. So was my dad. He was one of Patton's infantrymen at the Battle of the Bulge. So a Garand was what he carried. Until he was captured by the Germans. And then escaped. And spent probably a couple months recovering from bad frostbite on both feet. He was back in combat before the end of the war and helped liberate Dachau.

I have bought two Garands from the CMP. I consider the ability to do so the birthright of Americans because our fathers and grandfathers saved the free world with them.

Do I have sympathy for a non-US citizen who can't buy one from the CMP? No, I really don't.

Do I expect he'll get one anyway from the secondary market, where eligible guys deliberately buy them in quantity to resell? Yeah, he probably will. But I don't have to be party to something I think is slightly wrong.

I think there's something more to being an American than liking a 1959 fintail Cadillac...

Regards,
Crunch

[Tonymin]

You guys have thrashed out the legal question. I'm going to pose the moral question with some interpolation on my part as to the purpose for existence of the CMP. So don't split hairs, I'm talking big picture here.

I'm a military veteran. So was my dad. He was one of Patton's infantrymen at the Battle of the Bulge. So a Garand was what he carried. Until he was captured by the Germans. And then escaped. And spent probably a couple months recovering from bad frostbite on both feet. He was back in combat before the end of the war and helped liberate Dachau.

I have bought two Garands from the CMP. I consider the ability to do so the birthright of Americans because our fathers and grandfathers saved the free world with them.

Do I have sympathy for a non-US citizen who can't buy one from the CMP? No, I really don't.

Do I expect he'll get one anyway from the secondary market, where eligible guys deliberately buy them in quantity to resell? Yeah, he probably will. But I don't have to be party to something I think is slightly wrong.

I think there's something more to being an American than liking a 1959 fintail Cadillac...

Regards,
Crunch

Don't worry about it fellas. Both friends have taken all the advice to heart and are acting accordingly. My one friend is taking issue with the above statement as his dad also fought in the European theater, was captured and held by the Germans for a few years. Just because his dad wasn't an AMERICAN soldier doesn't mean he didn't do his duty during the war.
Drum beating aside, some of the advice here was right on target, some was stupid, some was insulting. But my friends and I thank you all for your contributions to this thread.

The legal right to gun ownership is a fragile thing nowadays. Being made an example is not a good thing. I told my friends that and they are taking all facts in consideration.

[dinkydau]

I came across the same thing a few days ago and decided not to purchase the rifle and wait a few days and then give it to my friend, with him giving me the money. Ask at the local gun shop first before you do anything. I know they will be covering their own butts in what they tell you. Better to be safe than sorry. You could call ATF directly or send them an email to clarify. To me, this may on the edge or a "wobbler", but I would error on the side of caution.