Pre 1899 firearm rules

[goldduster]

It's my understanding that pre 1899 are not considered firearms under Federal and State Rules. Are there new regulations for pre 1899 firearms, basically none, cash and carry without any registration or has this changed also. Thank you for advice.

[C&Rtrader]

Not my area of expertise, but I believe there is something about guns that can be readily concealed on the person (handguns, SBRs) that are chambered in a "caliber available through regular channels of commerce" which are not considered antique.

ie. a 1800s pistol in 41 rimfire is antique, but one in .22 short would not.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. I forgot and I am curious also.

[Springfield45]

I do not know about handguns but I did cash and carry a 45-70 1873 Springfield at Cabellas in Nevada.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Nothing has changed for guns made before 1899. They are still exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration laws. The feds still don't even consider them to be firearms.

[goldduster]

Thank you, what about the black powder reproductions of these pre 1899 guns.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Nothing has changed. Reproduction black powder muzzle loaders are still not considered firearrms by the feds and are still considered firearms that are exempt from dealer transfer and registration by California. Reproduction black powder guns that can fire modern cartridges are not exempt.

[sl0re10]

But as someone above mentioned concealed carry (a no go) and some other rules along those lines do apply in California.

[Geologyjohn]

Cap & ball pistols, original or reproductions, are also exempt, as they always were. Check out Dixie Gun Works (and other major sellers of reproduction cap & ball pistols) and you will see that they will send these pistols to your home. No FFL required.

[thenodnarb]

What about a pre-1899 S&W revolver (in 38S&W not special) or iver johnson revolver. These are originally black powder cartridges. Do these need a 4473?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

What about a pre-1899 S&W revolver (in 38S&W not special) or iver johnson revolver. These are originally black powder cartridges. Do these need a 4473?

Nothing has changed for guns made before 1899, even if they were designed for smokeless powder modern metallic cartridges. They are still exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration laws. The feds still don't even consider them to be firearms.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made on December 31, 1898 is an "antique". "Antiques" are not considered a firearm by the feds. "Antiques" are considered a firearm under California law, but they are exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration requirements.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made the next day, on January 1, 1899 is not an "antique". It is a firearm under federal law and it is a firearm that requires dealer transfer in California.

Flintlock, matchlock, percussion cap, and black powder muzzle loading guns are considered "antiques" no matter when they were made.

[thenodnarb]

Nothing has changed for guns made before 1899, even if they were designed for smokeless powder modern metallic cartridges. They are still exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration laws. The feds still don't even consider them to be firearms.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made on December 31, 1898 is an "antique". "Antiques" are not considered a firearm by the feds. "Antiques" are considered a firearm under California law, but they are exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration requirements.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made the next day, on January 1, 1899 is not an "antique". It is a firearm under federal law and it is a firearm that requires dealer transfer in California.

Flintlock, matchlock, percussion cap, and black powder muzzle loading guns are considered "antiques" no matter when they were made.

This is what I wanted to know. Thanks. I thought CA had some weird rules about antique pistols vs long guns.

[Eljay]

Thank you, what about the black powder reproductions of these pre 1899 guns.

The key thing to be careful about is that the magic word isn't "black powder" it's "muzzleloading" (or more properly "does not take a fixed cartridge" which includes cap and ball even though those don't strictly speaking load from the muzzle). So if you had a reproduction 1870s Colt revolver in .45 Colt that wouldn't be an antique. If you had a reproduction 1860 Colt that is cap and ball that would be an antique for the purpose of the law.

Nobody's going to rob a liquor store with a Springfield Trapdoor, but better not to overthink these things.

If you really want to make your head spin realize that it's then legal to install a conversion kit in your 1860 to make it shoot .45 Colt. But if you bought it with that conversion kit already installed it would have to go through an FFL. This should be true as long as it's legal to manufacture a firearm, which I think technically is what you're doing.

[dogfood]

i as at a Turner's a couple weeks ago and they had a m1871 mauser carbine; it was chambered in some type of 6.5mm IIRC.
when i asked if it was cash and carry, the salesperson told me that since it had a serial number it had to be dros'ed as per state law.
were they just being overly cautious then, or were they misinformed. I can't imagine a carbine being concealable and moreover they made a point about the serial, not size of the firearm or its chambering.

[Eljay]

I'm going to guess they improperly logged it into their book, and having done so they'd rather just treat it as a firearm so they can log it back out without making it messy. Don't expect the salesman to know the details.

[sakosf]

Nothing has changed for guns made before 1899, even if they were designed for smokeless powder modern metallic cartridges. They are still exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration laws. The feds still don't even consider them to be firearms.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made on December 31, 1898 is an "antique". "Antiques" are not considered a firearm by the feds. "Antiques" are considered a firearm under California law, but they are exempt from California's dealer transfer and registration requirements.

A Russian M1895 Nagant revolver made the next day, on January 1, 1899 is not an "antique". It is a firearm under federal law and it is a firearm that requires dealer transfer in California.

Flintlock, matchlock, percussion cap, and black powder muzzle loading guns are considered "antiques" no matter when they were made.

Even if the firearm was reworked or rebuilt at some point, as long firearm retains the original pre 1899 receiver (rifle/shotgun) or frame (handgun) it is still an antique..