1921 Tommygun

[Canstopwillstop]

Not sure if I am in the right thread or not. Excuse me if I am.

I was wondering if anyone had any information on identifying a real 1921 Tommygun from a fake and/or replica.

Also wondering if the one that I'm talking about is real what would be the process to me getting it registered as a Pre-ban assault weapon?

What rules would apply to me using it and having it? Other than the obvious ones like don't shoot anyone with it haha.

[emcon5]

Not sure if I am in the right thread or not. Excuse me if I am.

I was wondering if anyone had any information on identifying a real 1921 Tommygun from a fake and/or replica.

Got me, wouldn't it say somewhere on the NFA paperwork?

If you are talking about a Thompson submachinegun, it doesn't matter because you can't own in in CA anyway, unless you are a prop house for the TV/Movie industry.

Also wondering if the one that I'm talking about is real what would be the process to me getting it registered as a Pre-ban assault weapon?

If you are talking about a semi auto Thompson, supposedly you can apply for a dangerous weapons permit for one, but last I heard DOJ doesn't actually issue them.

I suppose it is remotely possible if you were active duty military, already owned a non-NFA Thompson and moved to CA on orders you may be able to get an Assault Weapons Permit, but it would only be valid while on active duty.

What rules would apply to me using it and having it? Other than the obvious ones like don't shoot anyone with it haha.

If you want a CA legal Thompson, they are available with a bullet button, and a 10 round drum.

http://www.tommygunner.com/pages/guns4sale/

Not sure if/how the 10 round drum passes the new magazine legislation.

[gunner336]

1921

A real early will have a finned blue barrel, adjustable rear sight, and marked Colt.

Check patent dates also. Have more info if you want.

[indetrucks]

If you want a CA legal Thompson, they are available with a bullet button, and a 10 round drum.

http://www.tommygunner.com/pages/guns4sale/

Not sure if/how the 10 round drum passes the new magazine legislation.

Wow.. those are cheap

[Capybara]

Did they even make a semi-auto version in 1921?

[pitfighter]

*There are guys that are obsessed with these firearms making a life-long study out of them - but having owned a few 1927a1's and a3's I'll chime in with what I know - it is not conclusive and these are not my thing at all - but I hope the following helps:

if it says 1927a1 or a3 on the side of the receiver if it is a modern semi - it will need to be California compliant to legally sell or buy it in this state.
Unless you hold a DOJ dangerous weapons permit with "additional" assault weapon tab or are an 07 with SOT - if you don't know what this last sentence means, you need not worry, it is not applicable to you.

If it says 1921 and it is made from zinc/pot metal - as are the Japanese replica-guns - The replicas also say made in Japan on them ( I do not know of a firing Thompson that was made in Japan - although early Auto Ordnance semis did have MGC replica rear-sights in some rare cases) - the replica makers include: Tanaka, Denix (Spain), MGC - they do not fire bullets or blanks and are legal - some fired caps inside brass cartridges unreliably - non require a permit.

If it says 1921 and has a steel receiver (magnet test) and cocks to an open bolt, I have more questions than answers for you.

If it is registered according to the NFA, the owner will know, and it will be costing North of $10K. If he doesn't know, and you are asking this question here, you will not be qualified to own this.

There is an exception here - as you are asking this question - I presume you are not well versed in these sorts of things - it could also be a dummy receiver (solid metal) on a real parts kit - legal in CA (without the mag) and totally inert.
This one may also say 1921 on it, but it will be unable to cock as it has no moving parts inside it.

Hope this helps.


*If you made an error and meant to say, I have found a 1927a1 semi-auto closed bolt, Thompson and want to know if it is a replica or not - the answer is they are all modern made, non C&R firearms.

[pitfighter]

My bad!

There are three 1927a1s on the C&R list - even though they were made after 1974 as are all approved closed bolt Thompson replicas.
(They would still covered by state assault weapon guidelines in CA.)
Auto Ordnance, West Hurley, NY - issued by the American Historical Foundation Richmond, VA.
1. Korean War commemorative.
2. World War II commemorative
3. Vietnam Commemorative.

An original configuration model 1927 (no a1 or a3 designation) semi-automatic carbine is listed as an antique on the C&R book - but this would be the original open bolt short barreled semi-auto - and a VERY rare firearm - it is based on the 1921.
Would still be an AW in CA - as well as 5 digit $ value.

Oh - and it could be a 1927a1 with a custom engraved receiver - the owner would know - and it would have cost him a few bucks to do it effectively. -

[AJAX22]

My understanding is that some long barreled open bolt semi carbines were made with original spec receivers and semi Fcg's

Its also possible that some early closed bolt long barreled carbines were produced with original spec receivers

I've never been able to get confermation... but I've seen enough bits and pieces floating around to make me suspect there may have been some othervarients

[emcon5]

My understanding is that some long barreled open bolt semi carbines were made with original spec receivers and semi Fcg's

Its also possible that some early closed bolt long barreled carbines were produced with original spec receivers

ATF would disagree. As far as they are concerned, once a machine gun, always a machine gun.

[pitfighter]

Ajax22 - I believe I may have heard that, too - I think I read that the converted MG receiver semis were a part of what was quite a long process of approval for the current Thompson semis we now take for granted.

I know it went back and forth with the ATF requiring extra changes to the design, and several companies may have been involved - similar to how we now have two or three approved ways to convert many military parts kits to legal configuration.

Anyway - the best way to learn about these great guns is to read books, I have many on German and Russian firearms, but very little on the Thompson just what I have gleaned from dealers and this site - http://www.MachineGunBoards.com/forums/ - where there are a few knowledgable Thompson guys.

In the 1960's the Thompson was still a go to SMG, Swedish K's, Madsens, UZI's, MP40's - they all look so retro now, lol

[dfletcher]

Another possibility - the gun is a WWII era "DEWAT" which would appear fully functional and although not in it's present condition capable of firing considered a machine gun as it can be readily returned to working condition.

[gotshotgun?]

Couldn't it be a grandfathered machine gun legally papered and owned by a California resident since the 50's or 60's?

[pitfighter]

Both of the above are possible.
It could also be a registered dewat - (legally registered as a machinegun but unable to fire) - lol, many answers to a suspect question.

Registering a pre-ban assault weapon 14 years after the ban - hmmmm.
"...Dont shoot anyone with it?"
I believe I have spent enough of my time on this fellow's question.