Shooting an 1842 Springfield .69

[Rebel]

I want to live-fire my 1842 Springfield (repro) and I'm curious what others have used. I want to fire both regular musket balls and buck-and-ball. One thing is I don't use substitutes; don't like them.

Questions:
- What diameter/molds do you use for the musket balls?
- What caliber balls do you use for the "buck" portion?
- What powder loads do you use with musket balls and buck-and-ball?
- What type of powder?

[IrishJoe3]

3f powder. I typically use 70 to 90 grains of powder. I use a single .65 caliber round ball with three .31 caliber buckshot on top. I've only fired buck and ball,.as the smoothbore musket was intended to fire. It's a lethal combination up to 100 yards!

[Rebel]

Awesome, I will give that load a go. Thank you.

Do you purchase musket balls or do you make your own? I'm looking for a good place to get lead. I'm told wheel weight lead is too hard to use in percussion guns; bullet doesn't really go anywhere or might get stuck in the barrel.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Ummm... 3f powder? With a .69 caliber? Wouldn't 2f be more appropriate than a pistol powder? Also, IIRC, most of the loads put the buckshot in before the ball, to keep them from rolling out. I believe that they have a CT scan of a revolutionary war musket that was loaded back then, and then lost for several centuries. It clearly shows the buckshot behind the ball.

-Mb

[CSACANNONEER]

I'd suggest FFg for a .69 cal gun but, what do I know?

[tuolumnejim]

Yeah stay away from 3f for such a large bore and start with a reduced charge of a Max @ 60 grains using 2f.
But I've only been shooting black powder guns since the 70's.

[Geologyjohn]

154 grains of powder? Are you sure about that?
I have always read that the .69 muskets were loaded with a charge of about 60 grains of "musket powder" (around 70 grains if using inferior Reb powder).

[CSACANNONEER]

Yeah stay away from 3f for such a large bore and start with a reduced charge of a Max @ 60 grains using 2f.
But I've only been shooting black powder guns since the 70's.

While I agree, I can say that I've used FFFg to live fire 3" artillery before. It was a "the show must go on" situation with an extremely experienced gun crew while filming an episode of Mail Call. Someone grabbed the wrong case of powder and we either would have had to cancel the shoot or do what we did. We ended up using a reduced load of 2/3lb of FFFg under a Paulson Brother's 18lb bolt.

[19K]

While I agree, I can say that I've used FFFg to live fire 3" artillery before. It was a "the show must go on" situation with an extremely experienced gun crew while filming an episode of Mail Call. Someone grabbed the wrong case of powder and we either would have had to cancel the shoot or do what we did. We ended up using a reduced load of 2/3lb of FFFg under a Paulson Brother's 18lb bolt.

were you on that episode? I remember it.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

The original load was 154gr of military powder and a .65 caliber ball. The load was in a paper cartridge which would be torn open, the pan primed, and the remainder rammed down the barrel. Military powder of the day was the equal of what today would be 3f.

Hmmmm... How does powder from that time period compare with today's black powder? Are you sure that it was purity and proportions? They kept refining the mixture of black powder right up until the advent of smokeless. And where are you getting your information from? Are you basing it on the size of the grains?

-Mb

[CSACANNONEER]

were you on that episode? I remember it.

Yea, I ended up being the powder monkey.

[IrishJoe3]

Ummm... 3f powder? With a .69 caliber? Wouldn't 2f be more appropriate than a pistol powder? Also, IIRC, most of the loads put the buckshot in before the ball, to keep them from rolling out. I believe that they have a CT scan of a revolutionary war musket that was loaded back then, and then lost for several centuries. It clearly shows the buckshot behind the ball.

-Mb

That would be incorrect. See diagram.





From the great book "Round ball to rimfire, a history of Civil War Small Arms Ammunition", the 1861 Ordnance Manual prescribes 110 grains of of "musket powder", using a .65 caliber round ball.

From that book .....

"Interesting, some experiments conducted at Watervliet Arsenal in 1848 indicated that the .69 caliber round ball was less inaccurate if the buck were placed next to the powder; however, in this arrangement, the buckshot were found to scatter 'more wildly and widely than when the bullet is below them to drive them out of the barrel.' The use of the buck and ball cartridge with the buckshot surmounting the ball continued through the Civil War ... "

Yes, a larger grained musket powder would be ideal, but as I've said, I've used 3F without any issues for decades.

**Edit to add....if you're using 3F, don't shoot max charge. 80-90 grains is more than enough with a buck and ball load. As always, start low, work up***

[IrishJoe3]

The original load was 154gr of military powder and a .65 caliber ball. The load was in a paper cartridge which would be torn open, the pan primed, and the remainder rammed down the barrel. Military powder of the day was the equal of what today would be 3f.

I would love to watch someone livefire a .69 musket with 154 grains of powder. watch from a distance that is.

[IrishJoe3]

Awesome, I will give that load a go. Thank you.

Do you purchase musket balls or do you make your own? I'm looking for a good place to get lead. I'm told wheel weight lead is too hard to use in percussion guns; bullet doesn't really go anywhere or might get stuck in the barrel.

I've done both. Cabelas sells the round balls, and I've bought lead ingots from mcmastercarr.com. The lead there is pure, so you can alloy it as you need or shoot it as pure lead.

Understand that when you're shooting the '42, its essentially a combat shotgun, (ish). Your ball is .04" undersize. It will litterally bounce its way down the barrel its so undersized. That is why they didn't even bother to put rear sights on your musket.

At less than a hundred yards, its deadly! I had a reenactor live fire. There were 10-15 of us shooting buck and ball volleys at wooden pallets. At 50 yards, it was an awesome sight. Volleys would literally disintegrate the wood. I would not want to be down range at close distance.

Cue the bloody lane of Antietam.

The Irish Brigade was armed exclusively with the 1842 Springfield with buck and ball. In this firefight, they lost 500+ men (60% of brigade strength). However, they advanced to less than 100 yards from the entrenched Confederates. From there they poured volley after volley into the trench. The result was a bloodbath; complete slaughter from the Confederates. Battle field accounts describe blood flowing down the lane like a creek and bodies stacked 6 deep.

I've been there. Sobering place.

[IrishJoe3]

Awesome, I will give that load a go. Thank you.

Do you purchase musket balls or do you make your own? I'm looking for a good place to get lead. I'm told wheel weight lead is too hard to use in percussion guns; bullet doesn't really go anywhere or might get stuck in the barrel.

I've done both. Cabelas sells the round balls, and I've bought lead ingots from mcmastercarr.com. The lead there is pure, so you can alloy it as you need or shoot it as pure lead.

Understand that when you're shooting the '42, its essentially a combat shotgun, (ish). Your ball is .04" undersize. It will litterally bounce its way down the barrel its so undersized. That is why they didn't even bother to put rear sights on your musket.

At less than a hundred yards, its deadly! I had a reenactor live fire. There were 10-15 of us shooting buck and ball volleys at wooden pallets. At 50 yards, it was an awesome sight. Volleys would literally disintegrate the wood. I would not want to be down range at close distance.

Cue the bloody lane of Antietam.

The Irish Brigade was armed exclusively with the 1842 Springfield with buck and ball. In this firefight, they lost 500+ men (60% of brigade strength). However, they advanced to less than 100 yards from the entrenched Confederates. From there they poured volley after volley into the trench. The result was a bloodbath; complete slaughter from the Confederates. Battle field accounts describe blood flowing down the lane like a creek and bodies stacked 6 deep.

I've been there. Sobering place.