Which Swiss rifle?

[BruinGuy]

I got myself a K31 a few months ago and like it quite a bit...

Now I'm tempted by some of the other Swiss rifles.

What are the pros and cons of the M1911S (K11) versus the M1896/11? Widener's has them for the same price ($329) and they each come with some nice accessories. Any issues shooting Prvi ammo from them, or GP11?

Any difference in durability, reliability, and accuracy?

Any opinions on those that Widener's is selling?

I know there's some real Swiss experts here, and would like to pick your brains for the pros and cons of each.

[Mustang]

There should be no difference in durability or reliability between the K11 and the longer 1911 and 96/11. They all have basically the same action.

Accuracy, however, is another matter. The K11 has the shortest barrel and sight radius of any of the GP11 (modern smokeless ammo) firing Swiss rifles.
It is the same length as your K31, but has a shorter barrel and longer receiver. The K11 also has the lightest barrel profile. Because of these factors, most people consider the K11 to be the least accurate Swiss rifle. That is not to say that it is an inaccurate rifle... it just lives in the shadow of the longer Swiss rifles when it comes to accuracy, imo.

The longer 1911 and 96/11, on the other hand, have the longest barrel and sight radius. My experience with these rifles is that they are the most accurate of the Swiss rifles, even a scosche more accurate than the K31.

[glennsche]

There should be no difference in durability or reliability between the K11 and the longer 1911 and 96/11. They all have basically the same action.

Accuracy, however, is another matter. The K11 has the shortest barrel and sight radius of any of the GP11 (modern smokeless ammo) firing Swiss rifles.
It is the same length as your K31, but has a shorter barrel and longer receiver. The K11 also has the lightest barrel profile. Because of these factors, most people consider the K11 to be the least accurate Swiss rifle. That is not to say that it is an inaccurate rifle... it just lives in the shadow of the longer Swiss rifles when it comes to accuracy, imo.

The longer 1911 and 96/11, on the other hand, have the longest barrel and sight radius. My experience with these rifles is that they are the most accurate of the Swiss rifles, even a scosche more accurate than the K31.

^^^ Would agree.

I'd say get the long rifle. its fun to have his and her matching long rifle carbine sets anyways.

[1-M-42]

The S-R G-1911, hands down, the better choice. I have two, soon to have three, and they are the most accurate of my six Swiss rifles, with the exception of my ZFK-55.

[pro-nra]

Although I'm no expert shooter of Swiss rifles, all else being the same, as Mustang mentioned the longer barreled and sight radius of the 1911 would make it easier to shoot than the shorter one therefore more accurate. However, I can't seem to master the Swiss rifles so I gave up on them.

[BLR81]

Although I'm no expert shooter of Swiss rifles, all else being the same, as Mustang mentioned the longer barreled and sight radius of the 1911 would make it easier to shoot than the shorter one therefore more accurate. However, I can't seem to master the Swiss rifles so I gave up on them.

Your logic is undoubtedly accurate, and if probably true in general. The one thing that isn't being taken into consideration is age. These were militia weapons and while there's no way of telling how many rounds were put threw them. I think it's safe to say that while in use officially, they were shot on a regular basis.

There's no way of telling how shot out any of the barrels on these older rifles may be without knowing how to check. So, while the sight radius of the longer older rifles may be better, there's no way of telling if the new shorter K31's won't shoot better.

So my feeling is if your looking for a shooter, I would consider the post war K31's unless you how to check out a barrel, and if you're looking for wartime memorabilia then I'd go with the older longer rifles and bring some gauges to checkout the barrel. Replacing a barrel on any of the Swiss Rifles is so cost prohibitive that it's usually cheaper just to buy another one that fix one.

[Mustang]

Your logic is undoubtedly accurate, and if probably true in general. The one thing that isn't being taken into consideration is age. These were militia weapons and while there's no way of telling how many rounds were put threw them. I think it's safe to say that while in use officially, they were shot on a regular basis.

There's no way of telling how shot out any of the barrels on these older rifles may be without knowing how to check. So, while the sight radius of the longer older rifles may be better, there's no way of telling if the new shorter K31's won't shoot better.

So my feeling is if your looking for a shooter, I would consider the post war K31's unless you how to check out a barrel, and if you're looking for wartime memorabilia then I'd go with the older longer rifles and bring some gauges to checkout the barrel. Replacing a barrel on any of the Swiss Rifles is so cost prohibitive that it's usually cheaper just to buy another one that fix one.

There is some truth in this as it applies to the K31. I have a real love for Swiss rifles and have a number of them. I've yet to find one with a shot out barrel, although I'm sure some must exist.

For K31's, I usually look for the the absolutely latest serial number I can find for the reason that Tom has identified...later may indicate lower round count.

I believe the issue is more complicated for the 1911 and 96/11 series rifles. Age may not equal higher round count, because of uncertainties involving service life. The longer rifles were supplanted by the K11 and K31, which were in service for much longer than the long rifles.

[Guisan]

Exterior or serial number says little as many rifles were also used intensively in civilian life. Best is to have the bore measured. I found rifles that looked like a train ran over them that were internally new and hardly ever been fired.

A K stands for Karabiner meaning carbine so a K11 or K31 are always short carbines.
IG stands for Infanterie-Gewehr meaning infantry rifle, also just G is being used so a G1889, G96/11 or G1911 are always long rifles.

[BruinGuy]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will be buying without inspecting, since the rifles are through Widener's. I never see these in any LGS.

Since I already have a K31, I am leaning toward the longer rifles. They have both the 1896/11 and M1911L, same price. They say the 1896/11 is "good bore, good wood" but they don't say anything about the M1911L condition.

Anyone bought one of these or any of the Swiss rifles from Widener's?

[Guisan]

Can't say anything about Widener's, if I were in the USA I would buy from Simpsons as that's the one I always meet in person in CH when he buys his merchandise there.

[sakosf]

The stock may fit you better on the m1911 rifles.

[1-M-42]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will be buying without inspecting, since the rifles are through Widener's. I never see these in any LGS.

Since I already have a K31, I am leaning toward the longer rifles. They have both the 1896/11 and M1911L, same price. They say the 1896/11 is "good bore, good wood" but they don't say anything about the M1911L condition.

Anyone bought one of these or any of the Swiss rifles from Widener's?

+100 on Simpsons. Better choices, more accurate grading and descriptions, fair prices, fast shipping and outstanding customer service. Call and ask for Floyd, he will pull your choices and go over them with you on the phone. He's as honest as they come and will work the price for you. In all honesty, I wouldn't bother with anyone but them and Empire Arms.

[BruinGuy]

I had forgotten about Simpson... they have some of the long rifles for very reasonable prices. That's what I'm going to do - thanks everyone! I'll post some pictures up when I get my new rifle. Cheers

[rdfact]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will be buying without inspecting, since the rifles are through Widener's. I never see these in any LGS.

Since I already have a K31, I am leaning toward the longer rifles. They have both the 1896/11 and M1911L, same price. They say the 1896/11 is "good bore, good wood" but they don't say anything about the M1911L condition.

Anyone bought one of these or any of the Swiss rifles from Widener's?

I realize this thread is a few months old, but I did recently buy a Swiss 96/11 from Wideners. It was shipped via UPS and arrived with a broken butt stock - literally in 2 pieces. I didn't bother unwrapping it from its bubble wrap. The break runs from just behind the trigger about 45 degrees up through the top of the stock. Makes me think the grafted in pistol grip creates a week spot?
Called Wideners and they are sending me a free return shipping label and will issue a credit or exchange it. The box shows no obvious signs of damage so don't know if it was already cracked. Huge bummer however.

[pro-nra]

Ouch! A bummer. Same thing happened to a rare FSR-89 shipped by FEDEX two months ago. Small dent on the cardboard but when I opened the box the stock was cracked at the pistol grip. Talk about a grown man cry I was sick to my stomach. This was the only FSR-89 I've seen for sale for the past three years I've been looking and now a broken stock.

You could have made a deal with Wideners to give you a discount on another one, file a claim with UPS. Then you have a supply of spare parts sans the stock.