Another Springfield question.

[yuccales]

Would it be safe to assume that a Springfield Armory receiver serial# 47XXX that has an SA barrel dated 5-11 is a proper match? Also if the stock has "ICC RIA" is this the correct stock for this rifle? Thanks in advance.

[0321jarhead]

Serial #47XXX does date with the barrel 5-11. The stock may tell us more if you can describe to us the markings and where they are located on the stock. Yet there are other markings on the metal, i.e. bolt, receiver plate for example.

[Flyin Brian]

Serial #47XXX does date with the barrel 5-11. The stock may tell us more if you can describe to us the markings and where they are located on the stock. Yet there are other markings on the metal, i.e. bolt, receiver plate for example.

That's odd, the source I use shows a date of 1904 for serial numbers in the 47XXX range.

[v/dBrink]

Serial #47XXX does date with the barrel 5-11.

Oops.. According to Hatcher.. The s/n at the beginning of 1911 was 456,376. For 1912 it was 502,046 so that gives us the low and high serial numbers for 1911.

Also from Hatcher:

Fiscal year 1904 there were 30,503 rifles manufactured. (July 1, 1903 to July 1, 1904)

Fiscal year 1905 there were 43,905 rifle manufactured.

That would mean through fiscal year 1905 there were a total of 74,408 made so far. The serial number in question, 47,XXX would've been from second year fiscal production 1905.

Many early barrels were replaced when flaws in forging process (upsetting process) were uncovered so it's really impossible to say exactly when a 1911 dated barrel was installed on a 1905 receiver.

ICC RIA doesn't indicate where that stock was manufactured only that it passed through Rock Island Arsenal at some point for inspection, storage or repair.

Never "assume" when trying to research a firearm. Either there's concrete proof to support a contention or there isn't. When you use assumption in place of fact you admit you're afraid to say "I don't know". There's no sin in saying "I don't know". Many/most times you simply cannot answer some of the questions asked because there's no evidence to support an informed answer.

The fact is that 1903 Springfields have been held in civilian hands since at least sometime in the 1950s when DCM began selling them off (or whever that was exactly). Assuming any 1903 is as it left the arsenal is foolish. Assuming any 1903 is as it was as a result of US Gov't arsenal repair or rebuild (or US military) is foolish. Spare parts for 1903 have been available to the public as long as new 1903 have been available.

Sometime in the early 1970s I had a 1903. I was kinda tired of the short length-of-pull of the S-type stock so I found a nice used C stock and put them together. Great improvement!! Today there's some 20-something newbie collector trying to figure out how that particular 1903 got the C stock. Dohhhhh!

Same goes with trying to figure out barrel dates and serial numbers. New 1903 barrels were available very cheap for the longest time.

The only exception to these ~rules~ of collecting is the gut feeling you get when you inspect a vintage 1903 for originality. Once you've owned one you can spot things that tell you it's 100%. Mine was s/n 394506 dated 12-09. Brand new, unissued as it rolled off the assembly line at Springfield Armory. There's no mistaking one like that once you live with one for a few years.

Martin Retting 1968 catalog.

[0321jarhead]

That's odd, the source I use shows a date of 1904 for serial numbers in the 47XXX range.

Thanks Brian, my wrong. I was looking at SIX numbers not Five...Oops. I need new glasses.

[yuccales]

Sorry guys, I messed up big time on the serial number. It's 473444. I did try to get you a couple of pics. As for marks, there is a "J" stamped into the stock under the safety. There is two "P" stamps under the stock, one behind the trigger guard, one near the sling swivel. The bayo mount has an "H" stamped in it. Any info & thoughts about this rifle would be great.

[smle-man]

I think the bolt body is a replacement as it is a swept handle NS (nickle steel) marked. The rest sure looks nice.

[Flyin Brian]

Sorry guys, I messed up big time on the serial number. It's 473444. I did try to get you a couple of pics. As for marks, there is a "J" stamped into the stock under the safety. There is two "P" stamps under the stock, one behind the trigger guard, one near the sling swivel. The bayo mount has an "H" stamped in it. Any info & thoughts about this rifle would be great.

Not to be a nitpicker here, but what you are describing as the safety is actually the magazine cutoff switch. The safety is located at the rear of the bolt and has "READY and SAFE" stamped on it.

I can't figure out what the arsenal stamp is on the left side of the stock but I do think the fancy serifed "P" under the wrist could be from the Augusta Arsenal... that might be a good item to research and may help narrow down where the rifle was re-arsenaled.

[0321jarhead]

As I look at the cartouch and comparing it with my book by Joe Poyer on page 400 it might be the initials ICC, Name..?, Time period 1917-?, Arsonal.. Rock Island Arsonal. Looking at that pretty serified Proof Mark "P" under the wrist would be of that 1917 time period. "I cleaned my glasses".

[pro-nra]

Nice rifle! Looks like the stock might have been lightly sanded as the arsenal cartouche looks almost gone but then again it could be just the angle of the camera.

If that was a HN rifle it would sure be nice to add to someone's collection. Being a LN, to me it is just a wall hanger.

[yuccales]

Thanks for all the info!