The Steyr M95 - CGN compiled knowledge.

[GOEX FFF]

Hey guys,

Lots of great info in this thread. I have a couple more questions for the experts. My dad has an old Steyr M95 in the back of his safe and it has no bayonet lug, is that typical for early produced rifles? Also, there are markings on the buttplate, but I have not seen any mention on any website as to what they mean, does anyone here have an idea? Finally, what is the value of a matching, non-converted, non-cut down rifle? All the ones I have seen on gun broker are 8x56R or sporterized.

Here's a bunch of pics of said rifle, the date stamp is super faded but it appears to be a "98" according to me and several other sets of eyes inspecting it.



Here is the butt plate, the plate is the smooth style with no ribs or indentations.



The date stamp



The missing bayonet lug, it is just a slip on metal band



Then the crown is all warped, but the rifling is still very strong inside the bore with no pitting.



Thanks for any info you all can offer. I think my dad got this gun from a guy way back in the day for a few bucks because he owed him money. That would be cool if it turned out to be some sort of rarity. Also, if it was in fact manufactured in 1898 it would be the oldest gun in his collection.

Can you post more pics of the underside of the upper band? The Long Rifle band was never produced without a lug or stacking rod, just like the Repetier-Stutzen. Only original Repetier-Karabiner (cavalry carbines) upper bands were void of the stacking rod and lug, until around the start of the war where most of the lug-less/rod-less bands were updated, literally welding or braising on a lug to the existing band and/or had their bands replaced to the stacking rod/lugged Repetier-Stutzen band.

It's especially odd you mention the top band is just a "slip on".
Is there NO screw provision at all? Even if it was an original lug-less/rod-less band from a Repetier-Karabiner, it would still have a screw that inserts from the RIGHT side (looking down the sights). If you remove the upper band, there should be a hole in the stock for a mounting screw to show that the "slip on" band isn't correct for the Long Rifle. That being said, I have no clue what type of band is shown here.

1898 is a good find for a Long Rifle that early. Note: That the date stamped on the chamber ring is the date of that rifle's acceptance. Not necessarily the actual year manufactured.
Though, with an 1898 acceptance date, you've certainly got an early one. Nice find, your Dad did good! The earliest original, unconverted and correctly matching M.95's I have in the collection are two Repetier-Stutzen with 1897 acceptance dates and two Repetier-Karabiner with 1898 and 1902 acceptance dates. I might have a couple more early Repetier-Karabiner's with rod-less and lug-less bands as well deep in the safe (I don't remember lol) but early pieces are hard to find. Also, look on the underside of the rear leaf sight and see if the serial numbers are stamped there. A number (not all) of very early M.95's had their serial numbers stamped in this location as well.




Also what is stamped on the top of Receiver? Budapest, Steyr or a Bulgarian crest? Budapest produced Long rifles and Bulgarian WWI contract pieces are another hard one to find.

The Unit stamp "42 P" on the top butt-plate would most likely be to the 42nd Pioneer Battalion (or Pionierbataillon).

As far as value, it's always hard to place a value because in general, it's worth what someone will pay for it.
But if your LR is indeed all correctly matched with that early of an acceptance date and still cambered in the M93 O-Patrone (as shown), I'd value it somewhere in the $400-$600 range, respectively.

[HellBound]

m95/34

oO0

[$P-Ritch$]

Can you post more pics of the underside of the upper band? The Long Rifle band was never produced without a lug or stacking rod, just like the Repetier-Stutzen. Only original Repetier-Karabiner (cavalry carbines) upper bands were void of the stacking rod and lug, until around the start of the war where most of the lug-less/rod-less bands were updated, literally welding or braising on a lug to the existing band and/or had their bands replaced to the stacking rod/lugged Repetier-Stutzen band.

It's especially odd you mention the top band is just a "slip on".
Is there NO screw provision at all? Even if it was an original lug-less/rod-less band from a Repetier-Karabiner, it would still have a screw that inserts from the RIGHT side (looking down the sights). If you remove the upper band, there should be a hole in the stock for a mounting screw to show that the "slip on" band isn't correct for the Long Rifle. That being said, I have no clue what type of band is shown here.

1898 is a good find for a Long Rifle that early. Note: That the date stamped on the chamber ring is the date of that rifle's acceptance. Not necessarily the actual year manufactured.
Though, with an 1898 acceptance date, you've certainly got an early one. Nice find, your Dad did good! The earliest original, unconverted and correctly matching M.95's I have in the collection are two Repetier-Stutzen with 1897 acceptance dates and two Repetier-Karabiner with 1898 and 1902 acceptance dates. I might have a couple more early Repetier-Karabiner's with rod-less and lug-less bands as well deep in the safe (I don't remember lol) but early pieces are hard to find. Also, look on the underside of the rear leaf sight and see if the serial numbers are stamped there. A number (not all) of very early M.95's had their serial numbers stamped in this location as well.




Also what is stamped on the top of Receiver? Budapest, Steyr or a Bulgarian crest? Budapest produced Long rifles and Bulgarian WWI contract pieces are another hard one to find.

The Unit stamp "42 P" on the top butt-plate would most likely be to the 42nd Pioneer Battalion (or Pionierbataillon).

As far as value, it's always hard to place a value because in general, it's worth what someone will pay for it.
But if your LR is indeed all correctly matched with that early of an acceptance date and still cambered in the M93 O-Patrone (as shown), I'd value it somewhere in the $400-$600 range, respectively.

Hey Goex, no longer at my parents' place so I cannot post anymore pics. To answer your questions to the best of my knowledge:

- It is stamped "Steyr" on the receiver
- There is drill holes going through the handguard, so it is apparent something else used to be on there before this band
- The band looks like a hasty fabrication made by someone. It was welded to make a complete ring, but the weld is now broken. There is also a single hole that sort of lines up with the holes in the wood of the handguards. I was thinking it could have been intended for a set screw, but no screw has ever been present as far as I know.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like me to check out on it. I should be heading back there in a month or so.

Also, a couple more quick questions: Does anyone know where I could get a bayonet lug/band to put on this rifle to keep up its' original aesthetic? Second, would it be okay to fire it from a value perspective? I'm not worried about it from a safety perspective. The action looks practically new and there is still very strong rifling in the barrel. The one thing I noticed is the crown seems a little worn out and that could greatly affect the accuracy. I ask because my dad back when he got it, ~2005, purchased some 8x50R ammo from a hard-to-find ammo dealer in LA. It is converted from 45-70 brass. I'd heard of converting 7.62x54R, but not 45-70 and would like to see how it works. However, I would not bother if it'll hurt the value of the rifle, but I do enjoy actually using historical pieces in their intended fashion. My dad also has an original long rifle(not sporterized) Springfield 1898 that is still fairly accurate and has an action as smooth as butter, it is a hoot to shoot.

[HellBound]

This thread is the most useful m95 info I've seen.

This was a Big5 'antique of the week' at $89, about ten years ago.
M95/34, My best guess is that it was built by Steyr 1911 or 12.

I got a front cap and removed the stacking lug, looks better.
Kept the original, just in case.









--

[GOEX FFF]

Hey Goex, no longer at my parents' place so I cannot post anymore pics. To answer your questions to the best of my knowledge:

- It is stamped "Steyr" on the receiver
- There is drill holes going through the handguard, so it is apparent something else used to be on there before this band
- The band looks like a hasty fabrication made by someone. It was welded to make a complete ring, but the weld is now broken. There is also a single hole that sort of lines up with the holes in the wood of the handguards. I was thinking it could have been intended for a set screw, but no screw has ever been present as far as I know.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like me to check out on it. I should be heading back there in a month or so.

Also, a couple more quick questions: Does anyone know where I could get a bayonet lug/band to put on this rifle to keep up its' original aesthetic? Second, would it be okay to fire it from a value perspective? I'm not worried about it from a safety perspective. The action looks practically new and there is still very strong rifling in the barrel. The one thing I noticed is the crown seems a little worn out and that could greatly affect the accuracy. I ask because my dad back when he got it, ~2005, purchased some 8x50R ammo from a hard-to-find ammo dealer in LA. It is converted from 45-70 brass. I'd heard of converting 7.62x54R, but not 45-70 and would like to see how it works. However, I would not bother if it'll hurt the value of the rifle, but I do enjoy actually using historical pieces in their intended fashion. My dad also has an original long rifle(not sporterized) Springfield 1898 that is still fairly accurate and has an action as smooth as butter, it is a hoot to shoot.

Sorry for the late reply, $P-Ritch$. Between work and taking care of my 7 month old son, things have been....busy, lol.

Yeah, I thought that band was odd. The good thing though, is a correct stacking rod / lugged band isn't too hard to find and any will do.
You might try EbaY of course. I've seen them pop up there from time to time. Just try to seek one out that has no numbers on the band.
Like we've previously mentioned in this thread, the only locations the original serial numbers should be for a correctly matching piece is the left side of the receiver and bbl, Left side of the stock and commonly, the last two digits of the serial on the left side of the top guard, right under or under near the rear leaf sight. M.95 bolts and bands were never originally serialized.

As far as shooting it...absolutely, shoot that ole' gal! I shoot my 8x50's and I see no way that that would lower the value. They're made to be shot right? Have a blast.
The Long Rifle is a joy to shoot, even in 8X56 and especially in the 8x50. I've described it as before, the Long Rifle shoots like how a luxury liner sails, hard yet elegant. Especially if you hand load and can play with your loads a bit. Mil-Surp 8x50mmR however has of course gotten scarce and can be time consuming to find but not impossible. The majority of the surplus that randomly comes to surface these days at gun shows, Gunbroker, AuctionArms...etc is mostly 1930's cupra-nickel RN Bulgarian. Expect to pay about $2+ a round.
But rolling your own definitely is the way to go if you want to have some good range time.

As for cases, I've never went the 45-70 route. I bought a bunch of 8X56mmR brass from Grafs many years ago when it was cheap.
That's what I use for 8x50 Cases. 7.62X54mmR cases of course are cheap and work great too for the 8x50R. Generally, you can just fire-form, trim and load.

In fact, the two cartridges are so close, believe it or not you can actually fire a 7.62x54mmR out of an 8x50mmR M.95, even using the same en-block clips. It's a little known fact that the Austro-Hungarians used the 54R in emergency ammunition situations for the M.95.

Would I personally do it? Eh probably not...but here's proof it can be done with no ill effects aside from lousy accuracy and the occasional sticky bolt.



One thing to note, the typical bore size of the M.95 is .329-330". During the conversion to the 8x56mmR, only the chamber was lengthened for the new cartridge, the bore diameter of .329" remained the same. The original 8x50mmR projectile was a 244 grn .323" flat base, where upon firing, the base/skirt would greatly expand and swage into the over-sized rifling.
This is why in the video, accuracy is so bad using the 54R. You're sending a .312" boat-tail bullet down a .329" diameter bore. lol But it works no less.

[$P-Ritch$]

Sorry for the late reply, $P-Ritch$. Between work and taking care of my 7 month old son, things have been....busy, lol.

Yeah, I thought that band was odd. The good thing though, is a correct stacking rod / lugged band isn't too hard to find and any will do.
You might try EbaY of course. I've seen them pop up there from time to time. Just try to seek one out that has no numbers on the band.
Like we've previously mentioned in this thread, the only locations the original serial numbers should be for a correctly matching piece is the left side of the receiver and bbl, Left side of the stock and commonly, the last two digits of the serial on the left side of the top guard, right under or under near the rear leaf sight. M.95 bolts and bands were never originally serialized.

As far as shooting it...absolutely, shoot that ole' gal! I shoot my 8x50's and I see no way that that would lower the value. They're made to be shot right? Have a blast.
The Long Rifle is a joy to shoot, even in 8X56 and especially in the 8x50. I've described it as before, the Long Rifle shoots like how a luxury liner sails, hard yet elegant. Especially if you hand load and can play with your loads a bit. Mil-Surp 8x50mmR however has of course gotten scarce and can be time consuming to find but not impossible. The majority of the surplus that randomly comes to surface these days at gun shows, Gunbroker, AuctionArms...etc is mostly 1930's cupra-nickel RN Bulgarian. Expect to pay about $2+ a round.
But rolling your own definitely is the way to go if you want to have some good range time.

As for cases, I've never went the 45-70 route. I bought a bunch of 8X56mmR brass from Grafs many years ago when it was cheap.
That's why I use for 8X50 Cases. 7.62X54mmR cases of course are cheap and work great too for the 8x50R. Generally, you can just fire-form, trim and load.

In fact, the two cartridges are so close, believe it or not you can actually fire a 7.62x54mmR out of an 8x50mmR M.95, even using the same en-block clips. It's a little known fact that the Austro-Hungarians used the 54R in emergency ammunition situations for the M.95.

Would I personally do it? Eh probably not...but here's proof it can be done with no ill effects aside from lousy accuracy and the occasional sticky bolt.



One thing to note, the typical bore size of the M.95 is .329-330". During the conversion to the 8x56mmR, only the chamber was lengthened for the new cartridge, the bore diameter of .329" remained the same. The original 8x50mmR projectile was a 244 grn .323" flat base, where upon firing, the base/skirt would greatly expand and swage into the over-sized rifling.
This is why in the video, accuracy is so bad using the 54R. You're sending a .312" boat-tail bullet down a .329" diameter bore. lol But it works no less.

Goex, no worries on the reply time. Babies take priority over gun talk, despite what others here on calguns may say....

Thanks a bunch for the info. I will look around for the stacking rod/band. I'll try to drag my out to shoot it next time I'm home, I know he'll enjoy it. He has about 60 rounds of the 45-70 conversion which should be more than enough brass if I ever get around to reloading it. I don't expect it to be a high volume shooter.

That is awesome that they can technically feed and shoot 7.62x54R, even if it isn't that efficient. It kind of reminds me of the Japanese rifles from WWII. How they were designed with just slightly larger bores so they could shoot enemy (American) ammo in pinch, but our boys couldn't do the same.

[mtribe]

all this info is great.

[mtribe]

how can i know what amo mine takes it only says steyr 95 on top. like this image. my father bought this never shot it.

[GOEX FFF]

Welcome to CGN, mtribe!

how can i know what amo mine takes it only says steyr 95 on top. like this image. my father bought this never shot it.

I don't see your image either.

Is there a large "S" on the chamber ring like this?



Or a large "H" like this?



Or is the chamber ring void of anything ahead of the acceptance stamps like this?



First two pics are re-chambered to 8x56mmR

Last pic (void of the "S" or "H" stamp) is an unconverted M.95 still chambered in the 8x50mmR.



Military German/Austrian Anschluss 8x56mmR -



Current commercial Serbian Prvi Partizan (PPU) production 8x56mmR -




WWI 8x50mmR -



No commercial 8x50mmR ammo is available.

[molsenice]

The Steyr M95 is an interesting firearm.


If you get it, post photos here and we will tell you more about it.

It has been years since I have joined a new forum - but I found this rifle and started searching now I am here.

The Rifle :


Markings, Bulgarian m95 - no "S" or "R" on the barrel on top of the chamber so I guess that makes it a 8mm x 50r, No info from the gun shop - but less than a hundo so good for me. Bringing it to a gun smith bud to investigate further.

other info:

side mount stock sling mounts removed, front site mounted to barrel, no bayonet lug.

Stamped over the chamber on the barrel is" Wn (looks like a crown or pineapple) 12"

Right side of barrel are a pair of pineapples, left side are matching numbers 2749c, also appearing on the stock. remove the butt plate and the stock is hollowed out.

There is an "R" appearing at the bottom of the bolt groove and the front of the trigger guard.


Ordered a lee mold and a pair of enblocs off eBay. No rush, but will eventually play with this at the range, went to an antiques arms and Armour show today - sadly, it was just NYs compliant new stuff, maybe 4 triple priced mosins and a glass statuette table, its all good thou


LOVE the gun, I see it as money well spent as I have enjoyed the research and reading of the rifle, love the old military stuff plus - it's just plain cool

[glennsche]

WWI 8x50mmR -



No commercial 8x50mmR ammo is available.

That's neat... Pressburg is the German word for Bratislava, the capital of present-day slovakia. Slovak ammo!

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Just as a heads-up, there actually is 8x50R ammo currently being manufactured. It is one of about 3-4 rifle cartridges available to civilians in India. They use it in their .315" Sporting Rifles, which are basically Lee-Enfields chambered in 8x50R. According to several people over there, they use it for hunting wild boar, and just about anything else, as it is more or less all that they have access to.

-Mb