smoothbore musket vs crossbow???

[AssaultDeathNote]

Hello,

I was wondering why from the time smoothbore muskets were invented, it was the dominant military weapon and replaced the crossbow for almost all purposes. Smoothbore muskets are inaccurate and had a very slow reloading time and crossbow bolts were more ballistically efficient and were completely quiet, so what was the deal about muskets that made it significantly superior to other non gunpowder weapons at the time?

[Farquhar]

A musket could penatrate armor. That might be one reason

[Fellblade]

I would imagine part of the reason is ammunition supply. It's a lot easier to carry 50 rounds of lead shot and powder rather than 50 crossbow bolts.
Muskets aren't even THAT slow to reload. Trained shooter can get off 3-4 shots per minute. I don't know how that compares to crossbows, I suppose it would depend what type you have in mind as far as the cocking mechanism, if it's one of the ones with a built in winch, a pulley system, or just muscle.

[Simply115]

Muskets are quite accurate. Enough so to kill a man.


Sent from the Realms Of The Haunting

[bohoki]

lead balls are cheaper than arrows

[Mutant]

It was repeated volume of fire, not accuracy. Line on line, or charge, lift, point/aim fire. Do again. Penetrate flesh and other things. Step over friend, advance, do again - all day.

[Mike A]

Silence was not a virtue in ancient warfare; the noise of a gun was apparently much more intimidating than crossbows (Read "The Conquest of Mexico," where Bernal Diaz--the soldier/historian who accompanied Cortez and fought along side him--talks about the virtues of both weapons; both were used by the Conquistadores.

And keep in mind that ancient crossbows were very slow to load and very heavy and complicated. In order to get the power needed to penetrate plate armor the Genoese crossbowmen (the best in the world, at least the most sought after and highly paid mercenaries) had to use a mechanical winding device that itself was heavy and complicated. The old "goat's foot" lever worked to cock military crossbows until plate armor became common, but then became obsolete except for hunting weapons. Each crossbowman had to have aniother soldier to carry a heavy shield called something like a "pavisse" to shelter the crossbowman from enemy arrows while he was cocking and loading his weapon.

If you are comparing our modern high tech crossbows to muskets, don't. The historical weapon was nothing like ours in size and weight--almost as long as a man is tall and very heavy. Probably more powerful, tho! But less powerful than a musket, and less frightening, according to historical accounts.
(If you like this stuff and haven't read Bernard Cornwell's "The Archer's Tale, " you should!)

The Romans apparently invented the crossbow, and used giant ones called ballistae to penetrate fortifications and mow down enemy ranks, rather like field artillery. Guys with metal detectors regularly find their big iron bolts around sites of ancient sieges in Europe and Israel.

[AssaultDeathNote]

Thank you for your replies! I think I have a better understanding about the military advantages of muskets vs other ranged weapons.

[Emdawg]

You must also understand that when muskets were not around when the crossbow when out of favor. Wheelock and matchlocks were the primary smoothbore guns of that day. The "musket" as most people know it was a light flintlock or percussion cap weapon that could be fire from the shoulder without the assistance of a stick or shooting fork.

In general, the term "musket" can be applied to any shoulder-fired weapon that uses a single-shot lock mechanism (wheel,match,flint,cap, etc.) Its easier to do so. However the proper term for a gun of the 1500/1600 period would be an "arquebus" or a lighter "caliver", both replaced by the lighter "musket".

Still, they were easier to train men to use and they were just as expensive as a good crossbow.

Guns also did much more damage to flesh and armor than a bolt could and the BANG scared the crap out of horses and peasant conscripts.

And a little less considered fact, balls from gunfire provided much more suppression of targets, so guns were effective at keeping heads down during a battle or siege, causing disruption of a formation. This is extremely fatal to a melee focused force as focused gunfire will kill many troops (lighlty or heavily armored), disorient them, and cancel out the momentum of a charge.

This lead to the muskeeters and volleyfire tactics of the late 1600's up to out Civil War.

[joelberg]

Also, a musket fixed with a bayonet doubles as a spear and staff for melee fighting, at which point a crossbow is utterly useless.

[CSACANNONEER]

Smoothbore frontloaders in the hands of someone who knows how to shot are going to be more accurate than a crossbow in trained hands. During the War of Northern Aggression, a well trained unit could load, aim and fire 3 rounds a minute. I've got no problem shooting a musket against a crossbow at 100 yards. I'm positive that I can shoot more accurate, precise and faster than the average acomplished crossbow shooter.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

They have pretty much covered it. Range, ease of use, weight. Up close, the heavy crossbows that were in use at the same time as matchlocks had an advantage in penetrating plate armor. But they were very heavy, even compared to the arquebus they were competing with. And the crossbow took up more room in a standing formation. With an arquebus, you can stand closer to the guys next to you. That is an important concern when you are counting on the pikemen in your formation to keep the cavalry at bay. The other problem was the range. Crossbows had massive power in close. But they rapidly lost momentum over distance. More so than arrows or bullets.

-Mb

[Mike A]

I suspect that even when an arquebus ball DIDN'T penetrate plate armor, it still unhorsed and incapacitated the target. Them balls were BIG! Anybody that's gotten shot while wearing body armor would know what I mean. And modern "balls" are LITTLE by comparison....

[Mikeb]

I think it's just a fad... wait it will blow over...

[Mike A]

Like that stupid "smokeless" powder!