Colt New Service Question

[Bucc]

I hope this is the correct sub forum. I have a CNS that belonged to my Grandfather when he was a Merchant Marine after getting out of the Navy just post WWII.
He supposedly carried it all over the world and allegedly this thing could tell a story or two.
I wouldn't doubt it, he was something of a hellion even as an old man.
My question is; this thing is stamped " Colt New Service 455. Eley."
I want to to shoot it but there seems to be no good source for .455 Eley.
I am also seeing weird things like that they were made in .45 Colt then adapted to .455 and the .45C will still work or I can shoot .45 acp with half moon clips.
Anyone know if I can shoot .45Colt in this thing or any sites I can look to for information?
If there is my google fu is weak.

[littlejake]

.455 Eley is .455 Webley; a Brit cartridge. About 60,000 CNS were made in .455 -- the .455 has a very thin rim the case is not a solid head. 455 is still available from Fiocchi ; but expensive. (about $32 per box)

Given that, I doubt you can even get 45Colt or 45ACP in moon clips to even permit the cylinder to close.

They were made in those calibers; but were so marked. You'd have to cut the cylinder to get it to take any other round; and that means we ban you from the C&R forum

Are there proof marks on it. I think you should find some British Proof marks.
There's an example for sale on gunbroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=307104885

[Marcus von W.]

I have a vague recollection - and I could be and probably am, wrong - of someone talking about machining .45 LC case heads down to fit .455. Or was that French 11 mm used in the 1873 revolvers.

A lot of said French revolvers, Webleys, New Service revolvers, and Belgian or Spanish WW1 Brit issue top-break revolvers have had their cylinders machined down to take .45 ACP on half-moon clips.

DO NOT EVER MODIFY AN ORIGINAL .455 REVOLVER. That will absolutely kill it's value and collectability

[smle-man]

Some of these were rechambered in Canada during WW2 to .45 colt by deepening the chambers and rim grooves. The barrels were marked for .45 colt. Fiocci sells .455 webley ammo and it is available on line from Midway and Grafs. You cannot use anything in a .455 revolver other than even more rare versions such as .450 colt. If ever want to sell it give me a shout.

[Bucc]

Well I guess you'll have to ban Claude from the forum, he's long dead so I think we can move on...lol. He refinished this thing himself and it looks like he stripped the rust (he was a sailor for 30 years)with what looks like a surface grinder....... gads. The bluing it nice but the rampant colt is almost gone and there are traces of pitting. It also has stag grips that don't fit. I'd say the value is gone. That sucks but then again, I won't feel bad about actually shooting it.
The cylinders are not recessed. The back is flush with the extractor star.

So does anyone know if this thing will handle .45 acp? That would be cool.

[Bucc]

Some of these were rechambered in Canada during WW2 to .45 colt by deepening the chambers and rim grooves. The barrels were marked for .45 colt. Fiocci sells .455 webley ammo and it is available on line from Midway and Grafs. You cannot use anything in a .455 revolver other than even more rare versions such as .450 colt. If ever want to sell it give me a shout.

Saw this after my post above. No go on the acp then? Hmmmm.... might have to get some .455 brass and dies.

Can't bring myself to sell. I've heard too many tales about this revolver. Unfortunately Claude never mentioned what he shot in it. He was all over, especially Singapore and other Former brit holdings, he may have had the right ammo for it all along but it has half moon clipped acp in it when I took it from him.

[littlejake]

Saw this after my post above. No go on the acp then? Hmmmm.... might have to get some .455 brass and dies.

Can't bring myself to sell. I've heard too many tales about this revolver. Unfortunately Claude never mentioned what he shot in it. He was all over, especially Singapore and other Former brit holdings, he may have had the right ammo for it all along but it has half moon clipped acp in it when I took it from him.

Interesting. Webley MKVI's in .455 were very cheap in the 1960's; and many were turned on the back cylinder face to accept .45 ACP in moon clips. Perhaps your CNS was turned in a similar fashion. It usually leaves the star very thin. On the Webley it would remove the tops of the serial number on the cylinder -- a "tell" on a MKVI that it's been modified. Wouldn't know how to tell you if you can fire .45 ACP out of it.

[Marcus von W.]

Photos would probably help a lot. And would be interesting too - this gun sounds like it might have as much real history as Indiana Jones's legendary .45 cal S&W Hand Ejector.

If .45 ACP fits, there should be no problem shooting it in a New Service - they are plenty strong.

Something else to consider, especially in a New Service this old, this general caliber, and with this kind of history, is that what the barrel says and what the cylinder holds are not necessarily the same thing. I've seen various .45 cal NS pistols that have had the barrels and/or cylinders replaced over the years with ones from other .45 cal NS's. As mentioned above cylinder modification is also something that happened and is a possibility.

If anyone wants/needs original grips for a New Service/Colt M1917, I have a couple pairs for sale.

The first is a set of original WW2 Colt brown bakelite grips - these were used on refurbished M1917's also - that look great but need a little epoxy repair on the back of one of the metal screw escutcheons because someone tightened the screw down too hard/far - this repair would be invisible and undetectable with the grips on the gun and if whoever fixed them blended in a little color like Testor's Model Paint to match, probably from the back too. The other is an original WW1 set of walnut M1917 grips that are "project" or "restoration" grade because of a repairable hairline crack in one and both have 2 extra small holes drilled in them above and below the center one for the grip screw.

I want $50 + shipping for the pair.....hard grips to find.

[dustoff31]

Well I guess you'll have to ban Claude from the forum, he's long dead so I think we can move on...lol. He refinished this thing himself and it looks like he stripped the rust (he was a sailor for 30 years)with what looks like a surface grinder....... gads. The bluing it nice but the rampant colt is almost gone and there are traces of pitting. It also has stag grips that don't fit. I'd say the value is gone. That sucks but then again, I won't feel bad about actually shooting it.
The cylinders are not recessed. The back is flush with the extractor star.

So does anyone know if this thing will handle .45 acp? That would be cool.

You might also consider .45 Autorim, particulary if you reload. They work well in my NS.

It also is/was .455 Eley and the back of the cylinder has been machined a bit, but not enough to allow for ACP's on moon clips.

It will take .455 Webley, .45 AR, or .45 LC, and as someone mentioned you can cut down .45 LC cases to Webley length. ACP's without the clips however, fall right through the chamber.

[Alan Block]

45 autorim will only work in a revolver chambered for 45acp. The rim is very thick. I would think if 45 lc cartriges will fit in the chamber, you could make a die to extrude the rim thickness a little, or turn the thickness down using a lathe.

[Marcus von W.]

Something else I should point out here - there are different types of .45 ACP "half-moon" clips out there. The original military ones have nicely rounded corners and work well with S&W and Colt 1917 revolvers.

The cheap commercial ones with the sharp pointed corners are crap - the pointy little edges stick out and hit the frame of your M1917's, so you have to force the cylinder closed and chew up your gun, unless you round those corners off with a file/grinder/dremel.

I have no idea how the real vs. repro/current production half-moon clips work in any of the non-M1917 .45 ACP revolvers or ones converted to .45ACP.

[dfletcher]

If the gun is in original 455 it should of course stay that way. Rechambering to 45 ACP/AR was popular. If done I believe a part number that should be stamped on the rear face of the cylinder will be gone. The 455 Eley barrel stamp is generally stamped over if rechambered.