Help Dating Mauser

[Timthetwin]

I was told to post this thread in this section so,
Hi guys I need some help dating my k98. I know that it was produced in late 1945 in the Obendorf factory. It is different from most other late war k98s though, as you can see on the fore end. At the end of the war they started saving $$ and not including full length stocks or bayonet lugs, but this mauser looks even different from those. I am almost 100% percent sure that it is a ww2 bring back, since it was past down from my grand parents to me. The original owner was a ww2 vet. The rifle was given with numerous other ww2 weapons, so I am certain that its an authentic bring back, although I do not have the papers on her. At first you will look at the fore end you might think it has been chopped down, but I removed the clamp and it has the original finish underneath. I can tell it is the original finish, because the German markings are still present and untouched or sanded. Also there is no signs of a"cut" on the fore end. The website will only let me upload 5 pics, I will try to get some more up. You can see the markings on the but of the stock.

Thanks

Tim

[Timthetwin]

Here are a few more pics. If you need more let me know.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Ok, two possibilities come to mind. First is that it is a volksgewehr, or late war production gun with some time saving production features. But seeing as how it has an adjustable rear sight, and a few other things that would be lacking on those last mausers, I don't think that is the case. The other possibility is that it was duffle-cut. That means that the stock was cut under the handguard ring so that when it was disassembled, it would fit in a dufflebag. A lot of GIs brought back weapons as souvenirs. And stocks cut like that are a big hint that somebody brought it back, and probably didn't fill out all of the paperwork. My guess is that yours came back tucked into somebody's luggage. I don't think I would try to repair it, as that is part of that rifle's history.

-Mb

[CSACANNONEER]

Dinner, drinks, a movie and then make it go "BANG".

[emcon5]

For what it is worth:

http://www.latewar.com/html/byf.htm

The byf45 code went to the high 9000a range, and then the factory changed the code to svw. Remember- mauser did not fill in all the serial number blocks- it is generally held that the letter suffix corresponds to the month of production, i.e. "no letter" is January, "a" is February, "b" is March, etc.. Many of the Kriegsmodell features were in full effect by January of 1945, and you find byf45's in full Kriegmodell trim from day

[Timthetwin]

Ya I have considered the possibility of a cut down stock, but when I removed the barrel clamp on the fore end the finish was the same as the entire gun. The finish appears original with the proper amount of wear for the vintage. Moreover, the fore end shows no visible signs of a cut. Also, the rifle has a later serial # than most of the one mentioned on that website. Also the rifle was brought back a MAS 36 which has no cutting to the stock. Here are a few more pics. Most likely you are right and it is a very nicely touched up duffle cut.

[emcon5]

Also, the rifle has a later serial # than most of the one mentioned on that website.

There is a byf45 pictured on K98forums with a later serial number (44xxx) that has a full length Kriegmodell stock.

You need an account to see the photos, but the thread is here:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?2585-late-byf-45-almost-ZF-41

I think yours was cut, but when and by whom will probably never be known.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

The MAS 36 has a 2 part stock, which makes it easy to break down to fit in a dufflebag. I wouldn't discount the idea of it being cut down simply because of the wear and finish. You have had 60+ years for it to age, and who knows what was done to it by who in that time. I can't say that it isn't an ultra-rare variation on the regular 98 mauser. But like the guy that was on last month trying to convince us that he had two prototype unknown mauser pistols, I would think that it is unlikely. It is far more likely somebody just cut down the stock at some point. And if they did it to get the rifle back to the US, or to use against us over there, you will likely never know. Either way, I would just enjoy it and go blow things up at the range.

-Mb

[Timthetwin]

THanks guys. I am in no way trying to make this out to be a rifle its not. Just wanted some thoughts from ppl who know more than I do, and you guys definetly do. Thanks for the help. It is probably just a late war duffle cut. I am not going to restore just going to have fun shooting it the way history played out for it. Thanks again guys

[SVT-40]

It's not a "duffle" cut. The front end of the stock has just been cut off and the entire stock (including the cut area) has been refinished/stained. The stock has been heavily sanded (you can see the sides of the magazine / trigger guard assembly sitting "proud" above the wood of the stock). This would never have been the case for a legit original K-98.

Once again it's a story of believe what the rifle is saying based on it's condition, rather than some story which cannot be documented.

And by the way there were literally hundreds of thousand of German K-98's imported into the US after WWII. So just because a K-98 does not have any importer marks does not mean it was a "vet bring back".

Here are two sales fliers from gun magazines from the 1960's. German K-98's for $24.95 and $27.95..... So without actual legitimate documents showing a firearm was brought back by a soldier, any story is just that a story.

[Timthetwin]

[QUOTE=SVT-40;9353392]It's not a "duffle" cut. The front end of the stock has just been cut off and the entire stock (including the cut area) has been refinished/stained. The stock has been heavily sanded (you can see the sides of the magazine / trigger guard assembly sitting "proud" above the wood of the stock). This would never have been the case for a legit original K-98.

I am inclined to believe that this is not the case. There are few reasons for this. First, the clamps, but plate and other assembly parts fit very snugly. If there was sanding then the markings on the stock would be much fainter, if not gone, but they are not. Also, the rest of the stock appears the same width as a normal K98.

Now dont get me wrong, I am not in any way attempting to validate any stories or rumors on the guns history. I know that it is frivolous without documentation. All I was looking for through this post was to find the approximate date of my rifle. I am however inclined to believe the "duffle cut" option.

In the end though, whatever happened to the rifle is history.

[smeg]

To answer your question....not produced in 'late 1945' ..it was over by then. But rather, being a no-letter block byf45, produced in January-Feb 1945.

On a side note, duffle cut or not, the front end of the stock has been cut down for whatever reason and repaired....neither of which was done originally from the factory. In addition, that front band has also been cut short...for whatever reason and also not factory.

Last side note, I agree that the stock has been sanded. After you have held and seen these stocks in original un-sanded condition, it becomes clear.
Short of being the person who brought it back or short of having legitimate capture papers, 100% certainly of a bring back is a bit of a stretch...in my opinion.

Nevertheless as stated, it is a valuable piece of history the way it is.