First muzzle loader? School me.

[AK all day]

Hey guys, I'm looking to possibly buy my first black powder rifle, but am a real virgin in the area. I am looking for something modernly produced, but vintage looking. If someone could point me in the right direction, or even just school me on how they work, and there effective/accurate ranges. How much does it cost to target shoot something like that? Thanks a lot.

-Dillon

[hylander]

Hey guys, I'm looking to possibly buy my first black powder rifle, but am a real virgin in the area. I am looking for something modernly produced, but vintage looking. If someone could point me in the right direction, or even just school me on how they work, and there effective/accurate ranges. How much does it cost to target shoot something like that? Thanks a lot.

-Dillon

From your description I would think you are looking for something like this

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/great-plains-rifle.php

However, what are your plans, paper punching, hunting ?
I have a Lyman Great Plains in 50 Cal.
My effective range for hunting and accuracy is about 150yds.
Thats the best I can do with iron sights, therifle is good for 200yds.
If you do not cast your own round balls, cost is about .50 per round

[Brd_Hntr]

Choice:
Modern or Traditional

Modern - Inline ignition, 209 primer, relatively fast twist (~1:28), shoots sabot projectiles very well. These are fairly efficient hunting tools for moderate ranges. They work well with black powder substitutes. Often frowned upon by Traditionalists in much the same way long bow or recurve archers look at compound shooters. Fly rod enthusiast's disdain for worm drowning spin casters...You get the idea.

Traditional - Caplock or Flintlock, slower twist (~1:48 to 1:70) The slower twist rates work very well with patched ball, and the faster twist rates are good with miniball or maxiball type slugs. The miniball retains good energy at long range, where the patched ball slows done very rapidly (~50% at 100 yards). In a flintlock black powder may be the best (only) thing which will work well. In a caplock you have more energy for ignition, so some subsitutes work well.

Safety Rules to remember:
1. Smokeless powder generates way too much pressure for a muzzleloader - use only blackpowder or subsitutes observing the recommended loads from the manufacturer.
2. The projectile must be seated in contact with the powder charge.
3. Use a powder measure - never load directly from a powder horn.
4. Don't smoke while working with black powder.
5. Clean-up with hot soapy water, dry and oil after shooting. The salts from black powder are very corrosive, but they clean easily.

Plenty of good information online:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com

http://www.namlhunt.com/index.html

http://www.nmlra.org/

Go to one of the ranges that has a blackpowder group, so someone can help you get started.

Alternatively there are instructors listed at the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association who can help you get started.

People generally either love this because it is a lot of fun, or hate it because it is messy and slow compared to modern ammunition. From my point of view it gives me another method to hunt. You can buy muzzleloaders online (no ffl, no dros, no paperwork, no waiting, no bovine feces). No you don't want one as a home defense firearm, but for range shooting or occasional hunting - why not.

The historical aspects of this seems to charm a number of people. There are all kinds of folks who are nominally anti-gun who are not threatened by muzzleloaders, go figure, so there may be opportunities to introduce new shooters to the sport through related activities like reenacting.

[AK all day]

Thanks a ton for the great info guys! The Lyman looks pretty spot on to what I wanted. What would be the result of not pressing the shot down in contact with powder?

[gun toting monkeyboy]

The result is a matter of some debate. I have never seen any evidence one way or another. But supposedly your gun could explode, or the barrel could burst. I hear lots of rumors about this online, but nobody has posted a picture or actual account of this happening. Your guess is as good as anybody's as to whether or not it is true.

As for buying muzzle loaders, go hit gunbroker. You can pick up used ones in the $100 range all day long.

-Mb

[Brd_Hntr]

More likely you get a barrel bulge or ring wrecking a perfectly good rifle. The defect might not be externally visible, but you can feel it with a cleaning patch.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/261863/

For a little more fun take a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18

Searching you-tube for 'muzzleloader explodes' will give at least some idea of what can go wrong.

Read up on it at some of the dedicated sites.

You will need to know a few more gun safety rules to properly use your muzzleloader, but like all the other safety rules they keep you in the fun zone.

[AK all day]

Sounds a bit scary if you ask me, hah. As far as purchasing one off of gunbroker, or other sites like it, is there any particular brand or manufacture I should avoid/look for? If purchasing a used rifle, it seems likely that it may have problems, such as what you descirbed (rings/bulge). Thank you guys for all the great links and information.

[AK all day]

A manufacture, brand, or make I should seek on gun broker for a decent price?

[tackdriver]

If You want traditional, Hylander has steered you in the right direction. Great Plains is an excellant bp rifle for the price.

[Army]

The point of ensuring the ball is atop the load, is to force the ball to move while pressure builds. Blackpowder burns at the roughly the same rate inside a barrel, or outside in a pile. It's actually more of an explosion, but with the low pressure of blackpowder, this explosion is not nearly as dangerous as a smokelss powder detonation. (Smokless actually burns rapidly in a cartridge, it only sounds like an explosion).

BUT...giving that explosion room to expand BEFORE the ball begins to move, means you have almost total pressure instantly. I've only seen one burst barrel, most simply bulge at the chamber.

Easy remedy: mark your ram rod with lines indicating an empty chamber, and one with your pet load. When either mark is at the muzzle, you know exactly what you have...if not, you made a boo boo during the loading process

Oh, another warning. Don't be surprised to find yourself starting to talk funny and asking pilgrims the whereabouts of the rendevous and local palavers. Keep your powder dry, and watch yer top-knot!

[ROOS_HAPPENS]

I'd also add the Thompson Center Hawken to the short list. Good quality American manufacture.
You'd be very happy with either the Lyman Great Plains rifle or the Thompson Center Hawken.
For your first muzzle loader, I'd recommend percussion rather than a flintlock, which demands a bit more attention.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/mzTraditional.php

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/great-plains-rifle.php

[Alan Block]

You have got some excellent advice. I would add that you should get a copy of the Dixie Gunworks Catalog. It has lots of load data and hints as well as providing hours of bathroom reading. dixiegunworks.com On my last cross country trip, I detoured 100 miles out of the way to visit their store in Union City, Tennessee.

[Garyson1311]

I have a Thompson Center Arms Hawken in 50 cal. Its a blast to shoot. If you go with a black powder gun, make sure you have your cleaning supplies with you at the range because even if your using the cleanest powder sub you can find, youll need to clean it after a few shots. I get lucky if I can get 8 shots out of mine using Hodge 777.

[0321jarhead]

Even though it is made in Italy, the quality and accuracy is outstanding. Lyman Great Plains .50 cal percussion. I should know, I have one.