Remington rolling block 7mm, help me with value?

[bigbob76]

I've been reading that handloads only should be fired in these. I'm not sure I'll ever ever shoot this but I would like to know more about it. It has this info behind the hammer on the stock tang: REMINGTON ARMS CO. ILION.N.Y.U.S.A. PATENTED OCTR. 22ND 1901. On the barrel in front of the band is CAL. 7 M.M. The rifling looks strong but I haven't even run a patch through it yet. It has a 30 inch barrel. Do we have any resident experts here that can bring me up to speed on this?

[jlmurphy]

They were made to fire the 7mm Mauser, and barring some major defect that rifle should still be able to handle any load that approximates military loading, any commercially available would be fine.

[emcon5]

I did some digging on these after seeing one at Cabelas.

If you plan on shooting it, this thread should be of interest:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2983

Some other info:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5420

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?72796-7mm-Remington-Rolling-Block-Info

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/24271#.T-Db8fWp1Bk

[bigbob76]

I see this thread says it got moved. I meant to put it here in Centerfire Rifles, I wonder where I put it by mistake? Thanks for the info so far.

[rojocorsa]

Old guns always go under the "C&R" section.

[gunboat]

You have a pretty nice specimen --
The Rem Rb was one of my first weapons -- bought it at "Ye old hunter" in alexandria virginia -- cost about $5 in 1957.
It was nowhere near as nice as yours, but did have a decent bore.
As I recall there was talk at that time that the RB chambers were a bit long for modern ammo and headspace could be excessive with modern ammo.
All of this is to suggest that headspacing may be prudent before sending modern hot 7x57 loads down field.
My tuppence

[emcon5]

As I recall there was talk at that time that the RB chambers were a bit long for modern ammo and headspace could be excessive with modern ammo.

From the link I posted above:

The 7mm Mauser cartridge dates from 1892. When SAMMI standardized the cartridge in the 20th century they settled on a case length that was slightly shorter than the original 7mm cartridge that rolling blocks are chambered for. This results in a modern 7mm Mauser cartridge having excessive head space (being too short) in the rolling block chamber. The distance from the base of the case to the start of the shoulder is shorter. It is difficult to fire form rimless cases as there is nothing holding the base of the case against the breech block. A successful way to fire form 7mm cases for the rolling block is to 1st expand the case mouth of an unprimed case with a .30 cal expander (I use a .30-06 die). LUBE the inside of the neck. Next, using a 7mm Mauser sizer die, screw it down until it only slightly sizes the neck. Try to chamber the case. In small increments, repeat above until the case will chamber, the breech block will close AND the hammer can be lowered to where it would strike the primer. It is best if there is very slight resistance of the face of the hammer against the breech block. You have now removed all excessive head space. Lock your 7mm die at this location and repeat the process for all cases you plan on shooting thru this rifle. Clean cases and reload using the starting load listed in modern reloading manuals. After firing it will be necessary to trim your cases to uniform case mouths. Also, I have found that most of my 7mm Rolling Blocks have chamber throats that have been eroded due to repeated firing from corrosive primers. This causes the case mouth to fairly greatly expand on firing. It will be necessary to anneal case necks periodically (I do mine after every 2nd shooting). If you don't anneal you will get case mouth splits after several firings due to the brass getting brittle. I have used bullets from 140-175gr; what ever the cheapest bullets I can find when I need more (Camp Perry is not in the picture). I seat bullets out so that they can get closer to the rifling. I've settled on seating the bullet so the base is approx. 1/2 way down the neck. So I neck size cases during reloading so that I do not size any farther than bullets are seated.
The 7mm Rolling Blocks are surprisingly accurate even with very worn bores.

[SVT-40]

Looks like a nice standard South American or Mexican 7mm Remington RB. Probably has no visible serial number.... Neat rifles. I have one and have shot standard SA 7mm through it for years and never seen any evidence of any issues on the fired cases.

[bigbob76]

Old guns always go under the "C&R" section.

Thanks, I didn't think about that.

[bigbob76]

Looks like a nice standard South American or Mexican 7mm Remington RB. Probably has no visible serial number.... Neat rifles. I have one and have shot standard SA 7mm through it for years and never seen any evidence of any issues on the fired cases.

How can you distinguish the difference? The other marks I remember seeing were capital U stamped in 2 different places.

[kendog4570]

How can you distinguish the difference? The other marks I remember seeing were capital U stamped in 2 different places.

The capital "U" should be on the barrel bands. They are manufactured with a taper to match the taper of the barrel, and the U stands for "Up", meaning when the butt is resting on the floor and the barrel pointed up, the U should be right side up as well. This is typical for a lot of US rifles having barrel bands.

Yours appears to be a 1902 version. The No. 5 Rolling Block was made in 3 distinct variations. The 1897, 1902, and the 1910. The main difference between the three was the extractor (sliding on the '97 and '10, and rotary on the 1902) and the handguard wood and its reinforcement. The patent dates on the upper tang were also slightly different, as well as the caliber marking.

I dont believe any of the No. 5's were serialized by Remington. Possibly by the purchasing country.

The Rolling Block is one cool rifle. It saved Remington's financial bacon with worldwide sales after the US gov pulled several contracts from them starting at the end of the Civil War, after they had geared up and gone into production. At one point during the late 1800's when they were on the ropes Winchester owned them!

[rojocorsa]

Thanks, I didn't think about that.

Yeah. It's kinda nice because then you don't have to sort through the AR stuff.


So is it Mexican?

[bigbob76]

Yeah. It's kinda nice because then you don't have to sort through the AR stuff.

So is it Mexican?

Another benefit! How do I get the coffee off of my keyboard, I just sprayed it when I read that.

I don't see any markings that would tell me where it's been.

[kendog4570]

The huge majority of No. 5's are "Mexican".

[Mike A]

As far as I know, Mexican 7mm RBs will be marked either "RM" or Republica Mexicana" ONLY if they were an official government purchase by the Diaz dictatorship before or during the revolution that began in 1910. I don't know how many of the various models were bought by the Diaz regime, but suspect that most of the Mexican 1910s were later bought by various revolutionary and counter-revolutionary factions, and are unmarked as to ownership (I did see a 1902 with "VIVA CRISTO REY" cut into the stock by a later counter-revolutionary). Diaz went into exile with his millions in 1910, I believe, dying rich, but not soon enough, in his beloved Paris.

Anybody got or seen a Mexican-marked 1910?

Most of the marked 1910s I've seen were marked "RO" for "Republica Oriental"--the name of Uruguay when it was a "breakaway" province of Argentina, or French-marked rifles from WWI when the 1910 in 8mm Lebel was a French substitute standard arm. Some of those even showed up in our great South East Asian intercultural exchange!