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Reality of the Swiss Rifles (IMNSHO)

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  • Latigo
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 2121

    Reality of the Swiss Rifles (IMNSHO)




    The PE57 currently can bring $2,000.00 to $4,000.00 in the US. Are they worth it? In the US, to a number of shooters, maybe. In fact they sell for around $450.00 on the street in Switzerland. We can thank US politicians for that idiocy, but what about the rifle itself?
    It's a quality made/designed rifle for sure, but it is also a stamped receiver, so the question becomes real manufactured value, not what a US shooter will pay. The street price in Switzerland tells the tale, and you can bet there's a good markup built in. Some years ago my Father traded a 57 for an Armalite AR10A2, and AR10A4, a ruger snubbie .38 and a CZ 9mm. Right around $2,700.00 in actual US value. So what's the difference?

    Both the AR10s matched the PE57 in accuracy and the A4 beat the 57 hands down, and both worth less than 30% of the 57's selling price. The coolness factor? That's in the eye of the beholder. By this time most of you know how deeply our Family is into Swiss rifles, but reality is reality. I rmember a long time ago I asked questions about accuracy as opposed to parts and appearance, and my Father answered.... "If I have an excellent 3 Star Premium barrel, a mated bolt and a good trigger group mounted in a chiseled 2"x6" piece of wood simply shaped to receive those parts and it shoots sub-MOA every time, and you have a brand new PE57 that shoots 1.25 to 1.75" MOA, which would you rather have? "
    My answer was too quick and I was a lot younger, but if your life depended on that accuracy, which would you rather have?
    That sounds like an over-simplification, but you do apply that logic to some degree in most firearms and their inherent costs. Do the more expensive whistles and bells outweigh factual lesser costs in a less optically appealing but tighter functioning rifle?

    I don't need to talk about the SIG AMT (American Match Target). Super high coolness factor and eye appeal in great, well made rifles that we could never get better than 1.5 MOA from (over a 25 year period) , and that was a 6 rifle spread. All that means is that maybe some load developed by someone could make it perform extremely well (maybe), but us average Joe's would be hard pressed to make it match most of our own present day US made auto loaders.
    I love Swiss rifles, but as well made as they are, ther are no machines the Swiss have that we don't have....... just maybe the Swiss have better and higher quality control standards in some aspects of rifle manufacturing, but we too have our super high quality manufacturers here, you just have to be selective about what you buy.

    In our experience there are no production Milsurp bolt action rifles that can consistently match the Swiss rifles in quality and consistent accuracy, rifle to rifle. To manufacture a brand new k31 in the US today would easily cost $2,800+ dollars.

    As for reloading for the PE57 and AMT, this is a response to a reloading guy my Father sent a lot of years ago.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    David, the problem you're having is a common one with the 57s.
    The chamber fluting that allows for the blowback cycling is the culprit. Note the longitudinal striations on your expended cases. The brass has bulged into the fluting and you can feel the ridges with your fingers. With a k31 chamber the expansion of the brass is a relatively overall expansion. Not so with your 57. Besides the immediate overall, the expansion is also into the fluting with their sharp edges. This stresses the brass unlike any other chamber. (Except the H&K 91, 21 and 93 and AMT)

    Resizing this brass is not only an overall, but inclusive of the bulged striations as well. Bcause of the fluting edges, these striations immediately become the stress points in the brass. Its like bending a piece of thin brass back and fort along a crease. It soon weakens and simply breaks at that point.

    If you're determined to resize this brass, do it once and once only. You may not easliy see the minute stress crack (or multiple cracks!), but its not uncommon for a case with unseen interior cracks to open up along more than one longitudinal plane, thus releasing an inordinate amount of gas from the sides of the case all at once.

    Be careful, David. Particularly with softer brass such as Norma 7.5x55. I advise that you stick with new GP11 or at least RUAG match brass which is a bit tougher than most, but whatever you do please understand that annealing will be of little and dubious value with expended 57 cases.

    P

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lots of things enter the picture for autoloaders, but I'm now convinced that the best of the US made autoloaders don't take a second seat to anyone else's, anywhere.
    Latigo and P
    An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

    www.swissproductsusa.com
  • #2
    pro-nra
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 2270

    Man that sight is just plain ugly. What's up with the Swiss designed sights? The Straight pull Swiss rifles only has one fault...their rear sights. Imagine the possibilities/accuracy improvement if the Swiss installed a peep sight like the US rifles of the era (1917, 1903, 03-A3 and Garand).

    Comment

    • #3
      Latigo
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2011
      • 2121

      That 57 rear sight is an extremely effective Diopter sight. Both fold down out of the way.
      Latigo and P
      An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

      www.swissproductsusa.com

      Comment

      • #4
        pro-nra
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 2270

        Still butt ugly but functional. Wish the Swiss did this earlier on their nice straight pull rifles.

        Comment

        • #5
          Latigo
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2011
          • 2121

          The .308 Sig AMT

          Latigo and P
          An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

          www.swissproductsusa.com

          Comment

          • #6
            Cessnapilot89
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2009
            • 2002

            They are both awesome looking. May have to sell some of the wall of mosin to get one...
            Soli Deo Gloria.

            Comment

            • #7
              Mutant
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2009
              • 828

              Pro-NRA must be a small fowl since he is always singing peep, peep, peep.
              Life is hard. Being stupid makes it harder. - John Wayne

              Comment

              • #8
                Latigo
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2011
                • 2121

                Lots of unique features. Those bipods move full rearward, full forward , rotate 180 degrees and they have drop-down winter triggers. Full rear is the accuracy position, full forward is field-of-fire position. Both take scopes.
                Latigo and P
                An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

                www.swissproductsusa.com

                Comment

                • #9
                  Cessnapilot89
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 2002

                  So, where would one theoretically find one of these?
                  Soli Deo Gloria.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Latigo
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 2121

                    This is a good start, but when you get dead serious, email me.


                    Latigo and P
                    An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

                    www.swissproductsusa.com

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Cessnapilot89
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 2002

                      Yes sir! Might take me a couple weeks to get the money, but it would make for an awesome rifle.
                      Soli Deo Gloria.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        pro-nra
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 2270

                        Originally posted by Mutant
                        Pro-NRA must be a small fowl since he is always singing peep, peep, peep.
                        That is funny. Due to poor eyesight aperture is best for me. Besides, aperture is much better than a leaf sight. Nough said off my aperture soap box.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          17+1
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 2847

                          Originally posted by pro-nra
                          Man that sight is just plain ugly. What's up with the Swiss designed sights? The Straight pull Swiss rifles only has one fault...their rear sights. Imagine the possibilities/accuracy improvement if the Swiss installed a peep sight like the US rifles of the era (1917, 1903, 03-A3 and Garand).
                          I don't know...I used to think more highly of them until last silhouette match. I had a higher score than 6 of them between open and open bench (was outshot by 3). I used my lightly tuned standard model M1A with a Smith Enterprise rear sight. I consider this M1A to be one of the least accurate rifles we own.

                          Maybe it was the conditions. They were pretty terrible.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Latigo
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 2121

                            against PE57'S, of k31s?
                            Camp Perry tells a true story of the k31s and the rifle's abilities.
                            Latigo and P
                            An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.

                            www.swissproductsusa.com

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              glennsche
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 1831

                              "If the American Left wanted to decrease interest in shooting, they should have the government make it mandatory like they do here in Switzerland. Nothing makes you not want to do something like when the government makes you do it."

                              "I'm over you." -Citadelgrad87

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