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**BruinGuy** · 05-23-2012, 1:10 PM

I've been tempted by these because they shoot relatively common ammo, but what's the opinion about what can be shot from these old Spanish rifles? Would the European "battle pack" 7.62 be okay to fire from these? What ammo are you going to try out?

**DennisCA** · 05-23-2012, 2:09 PM

As long it's 7.62X51 ammo, (commonly know as 7.62 Nato?) it should be fine. However 308 is another matter since (from what I have read) .308 has higher pressure:

Calguns.net

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=573879

**mosinnagantm9130** · 05-23-2012, 4:13 PM

Originally posted by DennisCA

As long it's 7.62X51 ammo, (commonly know as 7.62 Nato?) it should be fine. However 308 is another matter since (from what I have read) .308 has higher pressure:

This^^

.308 is too hot for a small ring mauser, IMO.

I'm glad you decided to get another one, the 1916 is a handy little rifle.

**Warrior King** · 05-23-2012, 8:53 PM

Originally posted by DennisCA

As long it's 7.62X51 ammo, (commonly know as 7.62 Nato?) it should be fine. However 308 is another matter since (from what I have read) .308 has higher pressure:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=573879

My understanding is that the commercial ammo being hotter is a myth. The military could actually be hotter given the different standards for measuring etc.

The argument that commercial ammo companies will always offer weaker loads to an unknown public with various weapons not all properly inspected, or to a military spec for liability reasons does make sense.

There are other issues people raise like uncertainty about how the actions were heat treated, small ring , being designed for a Spanish 7.62 etc.

The idea that Spain would heat treat the receivers just enough to tolerate their spec cartridge for a military reserve training rifle is kind of absurd. So far the only documented case of improper heat treating has been with American Springfield receivers, which resulted in a number of severe injuries to U.S. service men, and that was a manufacturing error not by design.

The case of dubious receivers occurred in the U.S. yet the receivers of certain countries are always considered suspect such as Japan, Italy, and Spain for various reasons which in the end amount to rumor, based on a lack of a proper paper trail for production, as if a foreign military would make all the production and procurement public record.

With respect to Italy and Japan the idea of dubious receivers are myths. The Carcano and Jap receives if anything are some of the strongest out there for their era.

The real issue with Mil vs commercial seems to be with reloading military brass as the capacity of the case calls for different load although the performance is the same as commercial, and the general recommendation is not to reload hotter than say the specs for commercial 308 to be safe.

**PEZHEAD265** · 05-24-2012, 5:48 AM

Sgammo has the 308 Cetme rd that would be ideal for it since it is loaded at a lower pressure.250.00 for 480 rds in a steel ammo can is a great deal.The bullet is non magnetic and that is a plus.

**Flouncer** · 05-24-2012, 6:01 AM

I am with the King on this. However, if it is a small ring Mauser, it should be a weaker design, right ? The other small ring Mausers were designed for lesser psi loads. Correct me if I a wrong, but Kimber bought a bunch of Swedish Mauser receivers and offered the resulting Kimber rifles in .308 and .243. Then they got into trouble. That said, these are not Swedish Mausers and I would think if they were made for 7.62/.308 they would be safe. The Carcano is a split bridge receiver and is weaker than almost any other Mauser receiver design. I don't know the psi or CUP of the Italian Carcano cartridge.

**TRAP55** · 05-24-2012, 8:56 AM

Originally posted by PEZHEAD265

Sgammo has the 308 Cetme rd that would be ideal for it since it is loaded at a lower pressure.250.00 for 480 rds in a steel ammo can is a great deal.The bullet is non magnetic and that is a plus.

^^^ This is what the rifle was converted to shoot.
Without getting into the 7.62 vs .308 thing, if you shoot enough .308, you will damage the rifle. The Kimber rifles had severe lug setback, and the Swede actions are much stronger than the Spanish.
With enough setback, the headspace changes, the case ruptures, and small ring Mausers don't have the gas handling capabilities of a large ring. You'll get a face full of hot plasma.
Shoot the CETME round, or reload .308 brass to .300 Savage specs. If you don't, you may as well play Russian Roulette. And do it at the other end of the range from me, I've had enough stuff blow up next to me.

**Warrior King** · 05-24-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by TRAP55

^^^ This is what the rifle was converted to shoot.
Without getting into the 7.62 vs .308 thing, if you shoot enough .308, you will damage the rifle. The Kimber rifles had severe lug setback, and the Swede actions are much stronger than the Spanish.
With enough setback, the headspace changes, the case ruptures, and small ring Mausers don't have the gas handling capabilities of a large ring. You'll get a face full of hot plasma.
Shoot the CETME round, or reload .308 brass to .300 Savage specs. If you don't, you may as well play Russian Roulette. And do it at the other end of the range from me, I've had enough stuff blow up next to me.

Be kind to the rifle to be sure. With the cost of ammo, if your going to run hundreds of rounds through it get a .22 or Mosin Nagant.

I do not have time to find the link but there was a new collector on the Swiss rifle forum who was active military and also worked as an engineer? or some technical capacity at Aberdeen Proving grounds (I was born there on the 4th of July...yeah baby). He took one of his Swiss rifles a k31 and shot the GP11 through it and subjected it their I assume modern testing criteria.

Based on memory the variables he cited were rounds fired, rate of fire vs heating of the barrel simulating combat conditions or something to that effect. After shooting a small number of rounds at a rapid rate which lead to the rounds going through a hot barrel, which he claimed would erode the throat faster, he tested the rifle for throat erosion and detected some throat erosion which he called normal based on their criteria for rapid fire/heated barrel etc. What struck me was how little it took to put detectable wear on a highly regarded rifle many of which are in mint condition after years of service. It was like this guy knew exactly how many rounds could go through the barrel and under what conditions before there would be excessive erosion or when the barrel would be degraded.

I also came across a service record for a Swiss soldier on the Swiss Rifle forum... not sure if he was reserve but he had the same rifle over the many years of his service, and he only shot it to stay qualified. The rounds he put through his rifle were really low. I was shocked. I think the average cal gunner with a black rifle would put more down range in an hour.

My point is more a question. The question is has there been a shift in the way rifles are used today than in the past? Did people go out in the past and run a hundred rounds through their rifle in one day for recreation or was it something they took out only during deer season or kept in the truck and took out to shoot every couple of day to pot a varmint etc.? Are we shooting rifles today in ways in which they only would have been shot in the past on those rare occasions during the heat of the most extreme battle which most combat soldiers rarely went through?

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