.....

[Vladimir]

....

[meaty-btz]

Because History has weight and mass. Hands that make, hands that carry, hands that fought. These impart an unmeasurable, but noticeable, mass to the items. The modern weapons are advanced, yes, accurate, yes, effective, yes, but what of the hands that made and where are the hands that carried, and the hands that fought with those weapons?


When you hold WWI and WWII surplus you are holding something that likely saw battle, that was made with intent, and carried by willful hands. You cannot "craft" history into a modern weapon. I would hazard a guess that you would "feel the same feel" that you get out of WWII surplus if you also had in your possession a modern M4 that was carried in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

For the longest time my entire collection was almost all WW2 firearms. After spending enough time on calguns and at the range, I got jelly of blactical tactical guns. Long story short I sold off all of my guns except for a few mosins to get into the Plastic and aluminum game. yeah its way cool and all, but theres a deep void when holding those guns, anyone else get that type of feeling? Im starting to regret that I did this.

I'm fortunate in the sense that I've always had an affinity for the C&R firearms, even as a young man. My first C&Rs were 2 Mosins; a 91/59 and a 91/30. I still have the 59 but I sold the 30 (it was counterbored and the stock had been varnished). I then bought a Vz.24, and a MAS-36, both of which I still have. I really like the old guns as much (if not more) than the "mall ninja" guns of today. Don't get me wrong, I've got a few OLLs and other goodies but I don't neglect the "classics".

[emcon5]

Don't forget smell. I open the safe and get a whiff of linseed oil, and smile, every time.

[Latigo]

Because History has weight and mass. Hands that make, hands that carry, hands that fought. These impart an unmeasurable, but noticeable, mass to the items. The modern weapons are advanced, yes, accurate, yes, effective, yes, but what of the hands that made and where are the hands that carried, and the hands that fought with those weapons?


When you hold WWI and WWII surplus you are holding something that likely saw battle, that was made with intent, and carried by willful hands. You cannot "craft" history into a modern weapon. I would hazard a guess that you would "feel the same feel" that you get out of WWII surplus if you also had in your possession a modern M4 that was carried in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yup. Very well said.

[SoCal Bob]

I was at the range with one of my sons and had some Marines shooting an AR next to us. We brought out the M44 and after the first shot heard a loud "What the F*** was that?!" The Marines stood there for awhile mesmerized by the fireballs and shock waves. We enjoy the modern guns too but the C&R's aren't going anywhere.

[Vladimir]

Because History has weight and mass. Hands that make, hands that carry, hands that fought. These impart an unmeasurable, but noticeable, mass to the items. The modern weapons are advanced, yes, accurate, yes, effective, yes, but what of the hands that made and where are the hands that carried, and the hands that fought with those weapons?


When you hold WWI and WWII surplus you are holding something that likely saw battle, that was made with intent, and carried by willful hands. You cannot "craft" history into a modern weapon. I would hazard a guess that you would "feel the same feel" that you get out of WWII surplus if you also had in your possession a modern M4 that was carried in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I see what you are saying. I guess to me its the craftsmenship of historical items. Ive seen and held modern era guns that have seen action(Im guessing), still lacks the beauty of older guns. For instance, how older guns usually had makers marks and crests stamped onto it.

[PoorRichRichard]

I really want a nice AR for long distance shooting, but there is just no substitute for 60+ year old Commy steel and wood! 2 Mosins and an all #'s matching russian SKS, and counting...

[Flyin Brian]

I've always been fascinated with old military rifles mainly due to the history part of it and not the shooting. So now that I have been collecting a while and I found I absolutely love shooting, I kind of expected that eventually I would become interested in the AR black rifle stuff. So far that has not happened and I still have not purchased an OLL or anything that remotely resembles "tactical".

I did shoot an AR at the range once... took me a while to figure out the pogo-stick noise was coming from inside the rifle... LOL

I'll just stick with my old wood and steel rifles for now

[Paulie Lugnuts]

Steel and wood milsurp guns have charactor. Modern guns just don't. Thinking about it, modern is relative. The FN FAL L1A1 I'm building is from 1959! The M16s my son is building are from the 60s. I guess I'm getting really old.

[Fate]

I love my C&Rs, especially the ones I know saw battle. If they could only talk and tell me more about the men that clutched them tightly at night and tried to put on a brave face when the gods of thunder began to rain steel.

I've sold off some to fund "modern" gun purchases, and those that went, I don't really miss. They were culled for a reason. Some I'll never sell if I can help it.

However, as a collector, I realize I'm only a curator of these old guns and enjoy them for the time I have them, but knowing one day they'll be someone elses to have and hold. So having things move from my collection to that of another doesn't really bug me. That said, there's little left in my C&R collection that I am willing to sell for any amount of money.

[bruceflinch]

I really want a nice AR for long distance shooting, but there is just no substitute for 60+ year old Commy steel and wood! 2 Mosins and an all #'s matching russian SKS, and counting...

Why don't you shoot your C&R's for distance? There is small group in norCal shooting C&Rs to 800 yds this weekend. LLast week we only shot to 500 meters...

I like my AK & AR, etc, but the C&Rs are more fun, IMO.

[Eddie1965]

I agree with Meaty-btz, I have a Romanian contract VZ-24 and every time I pick it up I can't help but think of the poor Romanian soldier who was holding the Germans flank around Stalingrad and had to stare down the hordes of advancing Russian troops.

[pitfighter]

There is an inescapable aura of history with older weapons.
A wiser and more eloquent man than me once said:
"The history of the sword is the history of man..."

By learning about the impact these weapons had on our own history our own lives are made richer and we are left wiser, hopefully.

As well as my 19th Century and WW2 collection of weapons I have more modern weapons that elicit a similar reaction.
A pre-ban (registered) UZI with an Israeli semi-auto converted lower, circa 1960's.
An Argentine FN FAL (registered) semi-auto converted, circa the Falklands conflict 1981.

Learn about your historic weapons, read books on them, research the politics that went on behind their production and manufacture. Why was the MP44 called a storm rifle or assault rifle, what is it, why is a semi automatic AR not an assault rifle by the true definition. Who designed the AK, why and where, and what were his influences.
If NATO hadn't chosen the 7.62mm, the FAL would have been 5.56mm, as it was intended, what a rifle that would have been - then the US went back on it's decree and adopted a 5.56mm.

Or,

Pretend to be in a brainless video game and shoot zombie targets with a semi auto version of a modern military weapon with three red dot sights on it; that has less lethality, is less accurate and less practical than any of the weapons I described above.

One experience is visceral and momentary, the other is lasting and potentially profound.

I have trouble having a conversation with gun owners whose only interest is modern firearms.
The same people will put a black fiberglass stock on a K98 and think they have improved it.

Pit.
*On the subject of lethality - an 1886 Winchester .45-70 with a modern bronze high velocity cartridge will reach out like the hammer of Thor and drop any living thing on the planet with one shot, and you have four or five more shots left before you have to reload.
It's really just about taste - I have to be less judgmental, I am sure there are smart well educated folks out there who just are not interested in old firearms. I apologize if I have offended anyone, lol.

Another day at the office.

[Dr.Mauser]

Its interesting to me that most people my age (I'm 21) have never even heared of a Lee Enfield, Arisaka and some people I've met, (even at the range) don't even know what a K98 is. It seems to me that the love and appreciation for historical firearms and all of its majesty is shadowed by a gun you can put a flashlight on...I couldn't imagine owning anything that wasn't a C&R.