Steyr 1904 Mannlicher

[smog7]

My father has owned this rifle since before I was born. We have never fired the rifle as we do not know the caliber or any other information. The rifle was sporterized at one point of its life. I would really like to surprise my dad by finding some rounds for it. With that in mind, anyone know the caliber of this rifle? I'll get some pictures up later.

[GOEX FFF]

Without seeing a pic...

Sounds like a Repetier-Gewehr Mod. 1904 or the Irish 1904 contract rifle (Repetiergewehr M.93/13) both chambered in 7.92mm (8X57)

[smog7]

rifle looks exactly like this one (just sporterized), with same exact markings.

http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5173

[mosinnagantm9130]

If it's sporterized, it could be in a different caliber than it was originally built in. Pics?

[GOEX FFF]

If it's sporterized, it could be in a different caliber than it was originally built in. Pics?

That's true, though these rifles were chambred in the standard 8mm Mauser and being a common cartridge throughout the century, odds are it still remains.
Of course, the only way to be certain is to take a chamber cast.

These rifles also utilized a 5 round en-block clip similar to the Gewehr 88 commission rifle. Depending on how far the sporterizing went, if the magazine has not been modified in some way, you'll need the clip or it will be limited to a single shot.

[yellowsled]

That's true, though these rifles were chambred in the standard 8mm Mauser and being a common cartridge throughout the century, odds are it still remains.

Ummmmm. These were NOT chambered in standard mauser 8mm! It is chambered in 8x50r Steyr. If there is a large "S" on the barrel it is chambered in Steyr 8x56r

[Mike A]

And "sporterized" covers a multitude of evils and some very good "goods" in the case of Steyr Mannlicher 1895s, which is what this gun looks like to me.

So:

A quick and dirty way to determine the cartridge it might take: Measure the bore with a ruler at the muzzle. If it is 'way over a quarter of an inch in diameter, it probably is one of the 8mm rimmed Mannlicher cartridges, probably the original 8x50R (but don't bet your hands or eyes on it).

If it is close to a quarter inch, it is probably the original 6.5x53 "Dutch" Mannlicher ctg. (but.....).

That gives you some idea of what you have, but to find out for sure (certainly before shooting it) you need to do a chamber cast with Cerrosafe or some similar material, which you can buy from From Brownells or MidwayUSA. You'll need to get or borrow a micrometer to measure the casted chamber precisely to confirm which cartridge it is. You can use "Cartridges of the World" to get the standard measurements for the likely cartridges.

BUT (the big butt) keep in mind that some very pricey sporters were custom built in England on this action. If your gun isn't just a chopped military rifle--has any of the following: classy checkered stock, proper forend tip of horn or ebony, a set trigger, has a sporter-type buttplate with a cartridge trap, has a non-military Express or other leaf type rear sight or a ramp-and-band front sight, or has any English names on the reciever or barrel, you MAY have a valuable firearm which would be worth an appraisal by somebody who specializes in English rifles. Some of the very best English makers and many fine Continental makers used these Steyr actions for sporting rifles, and they were also used for long-range match rifle actions, mainly before WWI. You may even find them in .303 British in both sporter and match configurations. DON'T sell or trade the gun off cheap until you check this aspect out.

Chances are that it's just a bubbaed Dutch or Austrian military Mannlicher. But that is still a very neat gun with a long history!

[GOEX FFF]

Ummmmm. These were NOT chambered in standard mauser 8mm! It is chambered in 8x50r Steyr. If there is a large "S" on the barrel it is chambered in Steyr 8x56r

ummm thanks Yellow. Not all Mannlicher are the same.
This rifle is NOT the straight pull A-H m1895.

This rifle that the OP shows/describes is a turn bolt Gewehr Mod1904 which are 8MM Mauser. In fact most probably 8x57mmJ-bore

http://www.hungariae.com/Mann04.htm

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=23431&weiid=4054957&lang=En

http://www.gunauction.com/closed/printitem.cfm?itemnum=8758350

After over 11 years of being a primarily Mannlicher collector,
I'm aware of the important differences between them.

[Springfield45]

Ummmmm. These were NOT chambered in standard mauser 8mm! It is chambered in 8x50r Steyr. If there is a large "S" on the barrel it is chambered in Steyr 8x56r

If you load that in your gun it will kaboom. It is a totally different round. Steyr made the Gew 1888 for germany and had rights to the design because of a law suit on the Mannlicker magazine system. Steyr modified the design of the 1888 and exported it around the world as the Model 1904. The "S" means it was modified or built to fire the "7.92 Patrone S". The 8x50r and the 8x56r are a rimed round that will not fully chamber as the were made for the Model 1895 steyr-Mannlicker rifles.

Do not fire modern ammo in it. Slug the barrel, it should be between .318 and .321. If it is your caliber is 7.92x58mm. You can reload for it using modern 8mm brass, .321 diameter bullets and a slow burning powder. decrease your load by at least 10% because these old rifle are not as strong as the Mauser 98 actions.

[Mike A]

Folks, am I missing something here? The pictured rifle OP says is just like his ISN'T a Commission Rifle. Not even close. It looks to me like a standard Mannlicher turnbolt model of 1895, with the manufacturing date of 1904 stamped just where it always is on these. It also ISN'T an 1888 or 1895 Austrian straight-pull Mannlicher.

I don't get the Irish connection. I know that certain Irish factions got some Commission rifles during the Troubles. The pictured rifle isn't one of them. Did they also get turnbolt 1895s?

I know that some COMMERCIAL turnbolt 1895s were originally produced in 8x50R, but those were clearly sporting rifles. I know that Dutch East Indies turnbolt 1895 Mannlicher 6.5x53R rifles were converted to .303 British by the Indonesians after they became independent. I have never seen a '95 turnbolt converted to ANY 8mm ctg. So why are we talking about this rifle as if it were an '88 Commission Rifle or an 1888 or 1895 STRAIGHTPULL, with all their various 8mm bore/chamber issues? (It the gun is what I think it is, you couldn't get an 8mm to chamber with a sledgehammer.....).

One problem here is that there are TWO 1895 Mannlichers (one straightpull and one turnbolt), and also two 1888s (one the Commission Rifle, which has some Mannlicher features, the other the 8mm 1888 Mannlicher straightpull Springfield45 mentions). All are various 8mms. But the pictured rifle isn't any of those....

Confused. Pics of the ACTUAL rifle we are supposed to be discussing would help (although as a "certified computer illiterate," I don't really feel comfortable asking other people for pictures.....).

[yellowsled]

aarrrrrg.... Awaiting pictures!

[Mike A]

I guess we just wait for pix. After reading all this thread over, I'm just as confused as ever.

(Clearly I'm NOT as familiar with Mannlichers as I thought I was.....but still willing to learn!).

[Springfield45]

[smog7]

sorry for the wait, here's the pictures









matching serial #16134

[mosinnagantm9130]

The proofs on the receiver look Romainian. Romainian M.93 Infantry Rifle?

http://www.hungariae.com/Mann93.htm