I have this old gun w/pics.

[Donny1]

So the wife calls me today and say's, "I'm bringing home Grandma's old gun, I think it's a 7mm Rolling block Rifle". Well of course I'm thinking she doesn't really know what she has, but I think she has proved me wrong once again.

So here goes.







On top of the receiver it says Republica Mexicana with a crest of an Eagle holding a Snake.

On the barrel it is stamped 7mm-SM

Serial #5557

On the bottom it says Remington Arms Ilion N.Y. with various patent dates from early to late 1800's.

Please help me out with this as I have no clue on what it shoots, how to take it apart, etc. It obviously needs to be stripped, cleaned, repaired, etc. Someone disabled it by what looks like breaking of the end of the firing pin. Otherwise it functions perfectly. The firing pin just does not protrude out and there is no spring tension on it, it just flops back and forth.I ran a brush through the spider webs and got a look in the barrel, not to bad, deep rifling and lot's of twists, lol.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[plumbum]

Should be 7x57mm (7mm Mauser), I see these referenced in old gun books, and if I remember it was actually a military arm.

I'd check with a good gunsmith for safety and Numrich for parts.

[plumbum]

Should be 7x57mm (7mm Mauser), I see these referenced in old gun books, and if I remember it was actually a military arm.

I'd check with a good gunsmith for safety and Numrich for parts.

[Thefeeder]

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Looks to be a Remington Model 1899 in 7mm Spanish Mauser, not 100% sure

I would not do a thing to it other than put a light coat of gun oil on it.

Until you know what you have....leave it be.

[Mike A]

Could be a Remington 1897 or 1901 or 1910. These are the same except for some details in the ejectors and handguards. If it is marked "RM" or "Republica Mexicana" it is probably not a 1910 since most of those went to South America in 7x57mm and to France in 8MM Lebel.

These were relatively cheap arms that were supplied to armies like Mexico whose frontline troops used the 1895 and/or 1898 Mauser in 7x57. They were used to arm paramilitary troops who were previously armed with obsolete Remington Rolling Blocks in 11mm, and so were used to handling that type of action. The Mexican Diaz dictatorship issued the to its (infamous) "Rurales," a rural police unit largely used to repress peasant and indigenous tribal unrest. They also had cavalry who were armed with the carbine version (a very nasty little beast to shoot).

This rifle looks to be in the sad shape common to these rifles, which were often carried by revolutionary infantry during the revolution against Diaz that began in 1910. They killed the Rurales when they could, and took their arms. The rifles were often hidden as part of guerrilla warfare and got very rusty when buried or hidden in a wall. Sometimes their users had little training in weapons maintenance and few resources for gun cleaning. Often the ammunition was corrosive as well.

Many of these rifles have excessive headspace. It is not known if they were manufactured that way deliberately to reduce chamber pressure with the "hot" Mauser rounds (unlikely but one theory) or if they were made for a special round that was intended just for Remingtons (unlikely, but another theory). In any case, they should always be checked for headspace before firing and NEVER fired with a 7x57mm round that has a military spitzer bullet (some of those were made in the 1940s and later and are intended for much stronger weapons, like the FN Type D and ZB-26 LMGs--they are too hot even for prolonged shooting in a Mauser 98 action, IMO).

If the bore is good and the gun has excessive headspace, you can fireform commercial 7x57 cases to fit the bore and reload them with a moderate load. The gun will shoot best with the long 175 gr bullets it was designed for.

If I were you, I'd remove any rust with a light scrubbing with bronze (not steel) wool which you can get at any big hardware store, over a light coat of penetrating oil like Kroil. Go slow and stop before the metal is bright. Missing parts are available; search internet parts sources, starting with www.gunparts.

This is a beat up old gun, but it has a very interesting history and should be cared for and kept. Mexican-marked rolling block 7x57s are not real common--they tended to get used up in bloody little battles and bad storage. And Remington didn't mark most of their production of this model: they sold them to anyone and everyone and left off any national markings to conceal the origin of the sale (what we call "black" arms now). Serial numbers don't necessarily tell you much because they made many of these in contracted "batches" starting the batch with serial #1. So there could be 20 or more out there with the same serial, just different batches.

The "NRA Book of Firearms Disassembly" has the breakdown sequence on this rifle: if you can't find it, PM me and I'll make and mail you a copy. As you can perhaps tell, I have a great interest in "our neighbors'" history and weapons.

[Ziggy91]

/\ Thanks Wikipedia /\

LOL

Just kidding, sounds like you know quite a bit about these...

[Mike A]

Actually nobody knows all that much because the Remington factory was selling to both sides in some conflicts in those days and was deliberately a bit vague about model numbers and REALLY vague about production numbers. The model numbers I gave are the ones I and some others use, but they are NOT official Remington models (1897, 1910 etc). Remington just called these military rolling blocks "Number One" actions, regardless of whether they were for black powder or smokeless cartridges. Some experts believe there was no difference between the smokeless models and the older black powder models regarding metallurgy. They are all "hell for sturdy" as proven by factory and other blowup testing.

The comparable sporting rifle models they did have a name for: "Special Smokless Powder Sporting Rifle". They were made in many calibers but are quite rare in all: .30-40, .303, .30-30, .32 Spl., 7x57, even some rumored in .30-06.

In case you can't find a 7x57 Mauser headspace guage, a .257 Roberts one works perfectly, BTW.

And if you find one marked "RO" or "Republica Oriental" it was made for the country we now call Uruguay, then the breakaway eastern province of Argentina. Pretty rare, but you just never know what's in grandad's closet....

[Donny1]

So from what I can tell it's a Mexican Military #5 Rolling Block 7mm Mouser. Seems to match up with what I could dig up online. Also, you cant tell from my crappy pics but it has a bayonet mount but no bayonet. Other than the firing pin and missing 2 screws it's complete and functional.

This was a pretty good guide FYI:

http://books.google.com/books?id=THeWYkwoLSUC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=Republica+Mexicana+remington+rolling+block+identification&source=bl&ots=riNn67g6yF&sig=uhxGBlcBrUfNkcx9OjGsX9__34Q&hl=en&ei=1n2DTsenIO3ZiALgx7mGDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

So I guess my next step is to get the bore clean and really see if it's worth going any further than a looker. It is pretty rusty but I don't see any pitting so far. What is the best way to get the bore and chamber clean? I just ran a little Hoppes and a soft brush, and wiped out the chamber with oil.

Thanks everyone!

[Mike A]

I use Montana Extreme Copper Killer for the first pass on an ancient bore that was originally fired with jacketed bullets. You can use an equivalent solution of industrial ammonia if you have access to it; much cheaper. But be careful with that stuff--a serious snootful on your shirt front will knock you out! Then I use a stiff brass bore brush and wipe out with patches til it's dry, then Bore Paste, then a brush again. Lots of work but you may well have about a century of crap in there. By the end, you'll know what the bore is REALLY like!

These Remingtons had both short and long bayonets, straight and very much like the bayonet for a US Krag rifle. I suspect the Mexicans used the earlier long model, but can't prove it. They will be marked Remington and unfortunately that jacks the price up! One more thing to search for.....

[DennisCA]

Old Gun

So the wife calls me today and say's, "I'm bringing home Grandma's old gun, I think it's a 7mm Rolling block Rifle". Well of course I'm thinking she doesn't really know what she has, but I think she has proved me wrong once again.

So here goes.







On top of the receiver it says Republica Mexicana with a crest of an Eagle holding a Snake.

On the barrel it is stamped 7mm-SM

Serial #5557

On the bottom it says Remington Arms Ilion N.Y. with various patent dates from early to late 1800's.

Please help me out with this as I have no clue on what it shoots, how to take it apart, etc. It obviously needs to be stripped, cleaned, repaired, etc. Someone disabled it by what looks like breaking of the end of the firing pin. Otherwise it functions perfectly. The firing pin just does not protrude out and there is no spring tension on it, it just flops back and forth.I ran a brush through the spider webs and got a look in the barrel, not to bad, deep rifling and lot's of twists, lol.

Thanks in advance for any help!

I like the line: "I'm bringing home Grandma's old gun,"
Your Grandma must have been something else!

Seriously - Take the gun to a gunsmith, just to be on the safe side.
It's money well spent, unless you like going to the hospital.

[Donny1]

Seriously - Take the gun to a gunsmith, just to be on the safe side.
It's money well spent, unless you like going to the hospital.

I appreciate your concern but I'm fairly competent with working on firearms. If after inspection, cleaning and checking headspace things look iffy I won't take any chances.

[marysdad]

Definitely a military rollingblock. This is the long version of what went on the end of it.

[gunboat]

Regarding your firing pin -- It may be fine - generally speaking, two methods (to my knowledge) were used for the "#5" firing pins. One is just a free floating pin retained by a cross pin that "bounces" back . The other is a cam like plate on the breech block that retracts the pin when opening the block by mooving against a protruding cross pin. This cross pin could be broken.
Other models used a small spring to retract the pin after firing.

[smle-man]

It looks to be missing the rear sight. I had one of the rifles, very heavy trigger pull but pretty accurate. I remember the Ye Olde Hunter ads from the 50s for these rifles 'Taken from the dead hands of Pancho Villa's followers....'

[bruceflinch]

From here on out, Mike A will be known as Mikeipedia. Nice job!