Does mod 03 qualify as cr

[Tripper]

What defines C&R
I understand 50+
but I've heard also that if it's been modified or not of it's original parts that it's not qualified as c&r any longer
So, a 03a3 that has a serial indicating early 40's date of manufacture, that has been sporterized since, is it still cr

[Tripper]

wow, not many answers on this one, only PM's.
does anyone here sell sporterized 03's as CR?

[goober]

a sporterized 03a3 can still qualify as a C&R rifle.
modifications that significantly alter the rifle from its original design, such as modern synthetic stocks and the like, can cause loss of C&R status. but there are lots of sporterized 03a3's out there that are C&Rs.

[Junkie]

If all of the modifications were done >50 years ago, it should still be C&R right?

[johnthomas]

www.atf.gov).

[27 CFR 478.41(c)]

Q: Does a collector’s license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce?
No. A licensed collector has the same status under the Gun Control Act (GCA) as a nonlicensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms.

[27 CFR 478.93]

Q: Does the Federal firearms law require licensed collectors to comply with State laws and local published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of the GCA?
Yes. It is unlawful for any licensed collector to sell or deliver any firearm or ammunition to any person if the person’s purchase or possession would be in violation of any State law or local published ordinance applicable at the place of sale or delivery.

[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(2), 27 CFR 478.99(b)(2)]

Q: Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?
No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a)(1), 27 CFR 478.41(c)(d)]

Q: What does “engaged in the business” mean?
The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Q: Are licensed collectors transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?
No. Transfers of curio or relic firearms by licensed collectors are not subject to the requirements of the Brady law. It is, however, unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of persons prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.

[18 U.S.C. 922 (d), (t), 27 CFR 478.32 (d)]

Q: Is the transfer of a firearm by a licensed dealer to a licensed collector subject to the Brady law?
The Brady law does not apply to the transfer of a curio or relic firearm to a licensed collector, but a licensed collector who acquires a firearm other than a curio or relic from a licensee would be treated like a nonlicensee, and the transfer would be subject to Brady requirements.

Q: Are licensed collectors required to execute ATF Form 4473 for transactions in curio or relic firearms?
No. Licensed collectors are only required to keep a “bound book” record.

[27 CFR 478.125(f)]

Q: Are licensed collectors required to comply with the requirements that written notification be given to handgun transferees and signs be posted on juvenile handgun possession?
The requirement that written notification concerning juvenile handgun possession be given by licensees to a nonlicensee to whom a handgun is delivered applies to curio or relic handguns transferred by licensed collectors. Licensed collectors may lawfully dispose of curio or relic handguns away from their licensed premises. Therefore, the signposting requirement does not apply to licensed collectors since, in the case of collectors, a requirement to post signs at the licensed premises would serve no purpose because the premises is not a business premises open to the public.

[18 U.S.C. 922 (x), 27 CFR 478.103]

Q: Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State?
Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee’s premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.

[27 CFR 478.96 (c)(1)]

Q: Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector’s license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity?
No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearm “business” is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. This is in contrast to firearm importers, manufacturers, and dealers who are licensed to engage in a firearms business. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors’ licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 478.127]

Q: May a licensed collector obtain NFA firearms in interstate commerce?
Only if the firearms are classified as curios or relics, are registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and are transferred in accordance with the provisions of the NFA.

[27 CFR 479.83 – 479.86]

Q: May semiautomatic assault weapons, which have been classified as curios or relics, be imported?
Not unless they are being imported for sale to a government agency or law enforcement officer employed by such agency for official use. Because ATF will not approve an importation that would place the importer in violation of the law, ATF would not authorize the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, even if classified as curios or relics, unless the importer provided evidence that the weapons were being imported for sale to a governmental entity or other exempt purchaser.

[18 U.S.C. 922(v)]

[goober]

yeah... like that

[johnthomas]

Tripper, I hope my post answered your question. Once in legal possesion of a C&R, you can modify it to your heart's content as long as it remains compliant with state law. Keeping in mind that anything permanent that prevents you from reversing your mod's will take the C&R status away, preventing a face to face sale without DROS. I don't buy guns with the intent of selling them, I do however, keep original parts when I change a stock or remove a crucial C&R part.
Important point in the Q&A post is a C&R license enables interstate transfer of a C&R gun. C&R long guns can be shipped. C&R handguns can be bought out of state, not shipped but carried in to the state form and fee sent to DOJ withing 10 days.

[Tripper]

I'm pretty much understanding that 50 years is 50 years, and in all other venues, the serialized portion of a firearm is the firearm. I don't see how anyone could contend otherwise, I've also seen all sorts of modified antique firearms on various gun selling sites that are claimed as cr. To suggest changing a stock makes the firearm newer is ludicrous, changing the way it actually functions would be more reasonable, but a stock does not change the operation, it's no diff than changing the sling or a bolt for that matter, cutting off 2 inches from the stock etc... There's just too many reasonable things that can be done, that do not detract it from still being 50 years old. Additionally, considering that I'm guessing a significant percentage if 03's have been modified to a degree, that itself should just about justify it now being it's original configuration as it was 50 years ago, and still deriving it's value from that venue, and a cr license still even would list it as Remington 03 serial#xxx, no reference at all to configuration or stock scope sling etc...

[Tripper]

Thank you all for your input also.
It's sad that the laws are so bad, that nobody can interpret them with absolute certainty.