C&R from Big5 (M44, Enfields etc.) Question...

[shinigami]

Before I had my 03 FFL I bought an M44 from Big5, do I have to log that in my bound book? I'm assuming I don't because it was bought before I acquired my C&R and it would be considered as a "normal" long arm purchase?

Now, what if I buy another C&R rifle from Big5 will I have to log that in considering that I possess an 03 FFL now?

Thanks!

[geo5120]

You dont need to log that purchase in as Big 5 wont sell it to you using your 03, just as a regular citizen buyer. I log stuff as a general rule to keep track, but not on the collecters log if I dont aqiure it with the 03.

[Pthfndr]

Before I had my 03 FFL I bought an M44 from Big5, do I have to log that in my bound book? I'm assuming I don't because it was bought before I acquired my C&R and it would be considered as a "normal" long arm purchase?

Now, what if I buy another C&R rifle from Big5 will I have to log that in considering that I possess an 03 FFL now?

Thanks!

To answer your second question first - yes. Once you have a 03 license you have to log in every C&R firearm regardless of where or how you aquired it.

The rifle you bought before you got the 03 license doesn't need to be logged into your bound book. But if you dispose of it while you have the license you have to log it out.

A lot of C&R holders keep a seperate page in their book, or a list, of C&R firearms aquired before they got the license in case they ever have to undergo an audit they have paperwork to back up the fact they were owned prior.

[Pthfndr]

You dont need to log that purchase in as Big 5 wont sell it to you using your 03, just as a regular citizen buyer. I log stuff as a general rule to keep track, but not on the collecters log if I dont aqiure it with the 03.

One does NOT aquire anything WITH the license. You don't "use" the license. You, the person, ARE licensed. Every C&R firearm you aquire while licensed is supposed to be logged into your bound book regardless of where or how you aquired it.

[shinigami]

OK, I did log the Big5 M44 on a separate log with the receipt included, just so I'm covered. And thanks for the heads-up about logging it out if I sell it.

[jmlivingston]

You dont need to log that purchase in as Big 5 wont sell it to you using your 03, just as a regular citizen buyer. I log stuff as a general rule to keep track, but not on the collecters log if I dont aqiure it with the 03.

For your sake, I hope you're never audited.....

John

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each
licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and
disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this
paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed
below. The purchase or other acquisition of a curio or relic shall,
except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not
later than the close of the next business day following the date of such
purchase or other acquisition.

Commercial records of firearms received. When a commercial
record is held by a licensed dealer or licensed collector showing the
acquisition of a firearm or firearm curio or relic, and such record
contains all acquisition information required by the bound record
prescribed by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, the licensed
dealer or licensed collector acquiring such firearm or curio or relic,
may, for a period not exceeding 7 days following the date of such
acquisition, delay making the required entry into such bound record:
Provided, That the commercial record is, until such time as the required
entry into the bound record is made, (1) maintained by the licensed
dealer or licensed collector separate from other commercial documents
maintained by such licensee, and (2) readily available for inspection on
the licensed premises: Provided further, That when disposition is made
of a firearm or firearm curio or relic not entered in the bound record
under the provisions of this paragraph, the licensed dealer or licensed
collector making such disposition shall enter all required acquisition
information regarding the firearm or firearm curio or relic in the bound
record at the time such transfer or disposition is made.

Anyone want to take a stab as to the meaning?

[PLINK]

The rifle you bought before you got the 03 license doesn't need to be logged into your bound book. But if you dispose of it while you have the license you have to log it out.

I don't doubt that you are incorrect on the actual ruling but I find this interesting.

If you aquired a C&R rifle before your 03 FFL, sell it and then log it out your bound book, wouldn't this raise concern with the ATF because you never showed it as being logged in? Would you just want to log it in even though you acquired it before you received your 03 FFL just to be on the safe side?

I know you said some keep a seperate log of the prior owned C&R's but is that seperate log valid?

[Sampachi]

I was told by a lawyer who specialized in firearms that you only log in C&R firearms that you have accuired or sold using your C&R. Mind you, he did suggest having a seperate book that lists your personal collection, but he claims that he brought up the example of C&R's owned prior to accuiring a Lic. and C&R handguns purchased through 01 FFL's and they said that those do not need to be listed.

[jmlivingston]

I don't doubt that you are incorrect on the actual ruling but I find this interesting.

If you aquired a C&R rifle before your 03 FFL, sell it and then log it out your bound book, wouldn't this raise concern with the ATF because you never showed it as being logged in? Would you just want to log it in even though you acquired it before you received your 03 FFL just to be on the safe side?

I know you said some keep a seperate log of the prior owned C&R's but is that seperate log valid?

You have to log it into your book, so you can log it back out again. Typically you'd just list it as aquired from your own personal collection.

I was told by a lawyer who specialized in firearms that you only log in C&R firearms that you have accuired or sold using your C&R. Mind you, he did suggest having a seperate book that lists your personal collection, but he claims that he brought up the example of C&R's owned prior to accuiring a Lic. and C&R handguns purchased through 01 FFL's and they said that those do not need to be listed.

Unfortunately, I don't think your lawyer read 178.125 as previously quoted by Dr. Peter Venkman. Of course, you could enquire of the BATFE in writing and keep the response as part of your bound book. That would carry a little more weight with the inspector over a verbal statement from your attorney...

John

[thedrickel]

Well let's see. ATF shows up at my house and requests an audit. I elect to do it in their office, as is my right. I bring the log book and the C&R firearms. How do they know anything about C&R's which I have acquired before being licensed as an 03? (and are still in my safe at home)