Question about selling C&Rs

[23 Blast]

When a gun is a C&R, and eligible for "cash and carry," does that mean there's no paperwork or other legal issues involved? That selling a C&R rifle is essentially the same as selling a lamp or a TV or a camera?

Just wondering. I'm thinking of thinning the herd a bit and have some old Mosins and an SKS I'd like to sell.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

When a gun is a C&R, and eligible for "cash and carry," does that mean there's no paperwork or other legal issues involved? That selling a C&R rifle is essentially the same as selling a lamp or a TV or a camera?

Just wondering. I'm thinking of thinning the herd a bit and have some old Mosins and an SKS I'd like to sell.

There are a couple of more restrictions. The buyer must be at least 18 years of age. If neither you nor the buyer are an FFL then you both have to be residents of the same State. There is a greater chance of getting sued in civil court if the buyer misuses a firearm you sold him compared to if he misuses a lamp or TV that you sold him.

To be eligible for cash and carry, no DROS, no PPT at dealer in California a firearm must be C&R and over 50 years old and a long gun. And neither party to the transaction can be a California licensed dealer.

[23 Blast]

"C&R and 50 years old" - aren't they one and the same?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

"C&R and 50 years old" - aren't they one and the same?

No. Firearms gain C&R status for three reasons...

(1) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(2) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(3) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

Reason 1 is automatic when a firearm reaches 50 years of age. Reasons 2 and 3 require that ATF certify the collectibility of a particular firearm. Once ATF has done this they add reason 2 and 3 firearms to the list of C&R firearms.

[23 Blast]

^So is there a list on DOJ that I can check to see if my guns qualify?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

^So is there a list on DOJ that I can check to see if my guns qualify?

No, there is not. There is the C&R list that ATF maintains of firearms that became C&R because of reasons 2 and 3. But since your long guns need to be over 50 years old in order to qualify for dealerless transfer in California anyway, you can just rely on reason 1 (Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof) for the C&R qualification.

Mosin-Nagants qualify for dealerless transfers in California because they are C&R, they are over 50 years old and they are not handguns.

Some SKSs qualify for dealerless transfers in California because they are C&R, they are over 50 years old and they are not handguns. All Russian SKSs are over 50 years old as are many Romanian SKSs.

[23 Blast]

^Thank you!

Now - if I sell a C&R, and it's misused by whoever I sell it to, how can I prove it was no longer owned by me? Do I need to write up some sort of receipt of sale and have the new owner sign it? I imagine many would be reluctant to give their signature to a stranger who is not obviously affiliated with a store.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...Now - if I sell a C&R, and it's misused by whoever I sell it to, how can I prove it was no longer owned by me? Do I need to write up some sort of receipt of sale and have the new owner sign it? I imagine many would be reluctant to give their signature to a stranger who is not obviously affiliated with a store.

Many sellers do require that the buyer sign a form that says they are not prohibited from possessing firearms. A calgunner actually posted a PDF of the form that he uses. You might be able to find it if you search, or somebody else who remembers might chime in.

Many buyers are so happy to not pay DROS or wait 10 days for pickup that they are willing to sign a form and even give a photocopy of their ID. They probably also like having a signed receipt from you to prove that they didn't steal the rifle or knowingly buy stolen property if it turns up later as stolen property.

Other potential buyers will be offended by you adding additional restrictions on the sale, tainting one of the only free-State style firearms freedoms we have left in California. They won't buy from you because of this.

[bluesmoke9]

Obviously handguns are different than long guns. What are the restrictions for handguns over 50 years old? A friend's father has a WWII Walther P38 and I'm doing a little research so he knows what options and obligations he has.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Obviously handguns are different than long guns. What are the restrictions for handguns over 50 years old? A friend's father has a WWII Walther P38 and I'm doing a little research so he knows what options and obligations he has.

Within California it would need to be transfered through a dealer. C&R handguns are exempt from California safe handgun roster, so that means he isn't restricted to doing a PPT with somebody local at a dealer. He can also ship it to a California dealer if his buyer lives too far away in California.

If he wants to sell it to somebody from out of state he can ship it to an FFL local to that buyer. If the out of state buyer is a C&R FFL then he can ship it directly to the out of state buyer.