.50 BP load

[WINGEDSWORD]

I have been shooting black powder rifles, for many years, bt always military replicas of .54-.69 caliber. I just acquired a Lyman Great Plains rifle(Hawken Style) in .50 caliber. Can anyone suggest a couple of good loads, using Minie balls or sabots. I'm not interested in patched round ball.

[WINGEDSWORD]

loads

Thanks, Bob. I'll contact Lyman. Bought it through Calguns site. Absolutely pristine.

[ElvinWarrior]

WS,

Listen to Bp B, that's always the best advice. Some years ago I picked up a 40 cal version of the Hawkin made by Thompson Centerfire Arms, after reading through the little users manual that came with the rifle, I was very surpised to learn about the wide variety of loads the gun could handle. Nearly all BP muzzle loaders manufactured today are made to much higher tolerance and machining standards than were available back in the old days when these arms were first manufactured. They also use specialized high strength steels that use special alloys specifically designed for the production of very strong firearms barrels, also a feature much stronger, and usually lighter, than the original guns.

What surprised me the most about my lil 40 cal Hawkin, was the shear strength of the modern barrel versus the original ones. It was pointed out, in the users manual, that it was perfectly SAFE to "Double Load", the rilfe with a double load of both, the powder, topped off with two round balls, carefully seated right on top of each other, which the manufacturer reffered to as a "deer load". They did point out, VERY STRONGLY, that the gun must be very carefully loaded when using the "deer load", that the first ball must be seated very firmly onto the double powder charge, and the second ball, must be firmly seated on top of the first ball. They even suggested, marking the ramrod, with knotches, one knotch for the double powder charge only, another knotch for the firmly seated first ball, and finally a third knotch for the firmly seated second ball. In this way, if you are out in the field, and not completely sure if the second ball is seated all the way down, or, if you got distracted, and don't remember if you already seated the second ball or not, a simple check of the ramrod, to see which knotch matches up on the rod, will very quickly tell you if you have seated the second ball all the way down, or whether or not you already have two balls loaded. This simple little technique will obviously work for other high end loads going to the max limits of the guns load design.

I was also very surprised to learn the wide variety of bullet grainage weights vs powder grainage charges that were considered to be perfectly safe for my lil 40 Cal. It seems that little "squirrel gun", as many persons refer to 40 cal carbine rifles, was alot stronger, and more powerful, than I thought would be possible, or safe.

I am NOT SUGGESTING that your Lyman, can handle the exact same kinds of loads as my Thompson Centerfire could, the different manufactures do use different manufacturing methodes and different types of modern steel alloys, so there are differances between an exact same type and form of carbine rifle, but made by different manufactures. What I am saying however, is that you probably will be somewhat surprised at how hardy, resiliant, and powerfully adaptive these little Hawkins actually are.

There was a reason why these types of field rifles were so wildly popular as they were, they are amazingly adaptable and resilient little guns, one of my all time favorites. In general, price comparing the Hawkins, to many other types of reproduction guns, the Hawkins generally have another pleasant surprise, they tend to be alot more affordable than alot of other types of BP rifles, without sacraficing quality, accuracy or workmanship at all.

Sincerely,

Elvin Warrior... aka... David, "EW"

[ElvinWarrior]

Super Dog Wearing A Cape,

Far be it from me to differ from advice that has been passed down from the wise old elders to today. But it is my oppinion, and, this is only an oppinion, that the idea of modern manufactured reproduction guns, held to much higher technical standards than the originals were, all have wide variances in performance and in fact, unique "personalities" is a beleif that I think is somewhat dated, possibly outdated.

This was undoubtedly very true in the original days, where machinine technology was not nearly as precise or accurate and modern reproductions guns are, resulting in rather significant variations from gun to gun on the production lines.

But with todays much higher standards and methodes, I think these variations, although present to a degree, are no where near the significant variations of the original guns.

Just my humble oppinion....

And, pushing a gun to its maximun suggested load levels from the manufacturer, does not, in any way, push the limits of the gun anywhere close to any sort of danger zone. Guns are deliberately overdesigned to withstand much more stress and strain than what the manufacturer says is the max suggested load limits. Manufacturers publish these suggested maximums in an effort to insure, that never, under any normal circumstances, is the weapon stressed anywhere near to a danger level that could result in a very dangerous overload condition.

This deliberate overdesign of guns was even true way back in the good ol days in the 17th and 18th centuries. In fact, it was a standard practice by the English Armories, to deliberately overload stress all guns received in the armory with loads that were three (3) to four (4) times the standard load levels of those types of weapons. They would deliberately overload the weapons, and set them off by some simple type of remote firing arangement, from a safe distance away, such as mounting the gun in a wooden vise, and pulling on a long twine chord, from a safe distance, to fire the charge. If the gun blew up, or showed signs of weakness, stress, or possible failure, after the test, it was sent back to the makers, unpaid for, if the guns passed the test, they were sent to the workshop to be stamped with the various armory acceptance stamps, and put in stock for issue, then, paid for. This was done for several reasons, when a soldier is in a battle, with the enemy firing upon them, and lots of very hectic activity all around them, with lots of noise, and smoke, and distractions going on all around them, they sometimes in their rush to get another load down, accidentally overloaded the guns, or double load them, because in all the noise and smoke and distractions, they didn't realize that their last load did not fire, and the gun was still charged. This was a very common occurance on the battlefield when BP Muzzle Loaders reinged king of the armies.

This kind of battlefield overloading was still occuring frequently even during the civil war, I have read many accounts about battlefield weapons being recovered from the battlefield that had multiple loads, stacked one on top of each other, four or five levels deep because the gun nipple was fouled and the soldier did not realize that his rifle had not fired the last several shots at all. And it was probably a good thing, that those rifles that had been stacked with five loads on top of each other had not been fired, given the metal technology of the era, I think that a five load stack, had it gone off, would have most probably burst the barrel.

Sincerely,

ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"

[jpscoot_21]

Using T/C's 370gr. maxi-ball (from their .50 hawken manual) probably has same 1:48 twist as yours, double-check it though. These are using real BP, if bp substitute such as Pyrodex, kick it down 15% :

80gr of FFg = 1271 fps at muzzle/ 1328 ft. lbs of energy
90gr. FFg= 1344 fps/ 1484 ft. lbs
100 gr. FFg = 1418 /1652 ft. lbs.

These are bullets that people have mentioned they got good results with:
T/C's 350 gr. max-Hunter
Buffalo's Ball-ets 270gr.
Lee's R.E.A.L. 320 gr.

These should be hunting loads and could be lowered in 5gr. increments to find target loads your rifle likes, as well as to economize powder.

[scrat]

Using round ball with patch and or R.E.A.L mold by lee. You can not effectively shoot sabots as the rate of twist is not made for it. You will get lousy accuracy trying to shoot sabots. You will find your most effective accuracy is with approximatley 65 grains powder to .490 round ball with a patch