M1 vs. M14 accuracy

[Dr. Pepper]

I was talking to a friend the other day about the accuracy of the M1 and the M14; I was under the impression one should expect about 3 MOA from an M1 and about 4 for an M14 (on semi-automatic fire of course). How far off the mark am I? What kind of groups should be expected from these rifles?

[M1A Rifleman]

M14's were considered to have passed accuracy requirements if they grouped less than 6", thou most would shoot better. Also, this was for the standard infantry rifle.

Match rifles used better ammo and were tuned to shooter tighter. M1's would be the same. The M1 was switched out to the M14 for military matches due to the use of the M14 as the issue rifle at the time.

The other factor was the ammo. 7.26 Nato was supposedly more inherently accurate than the 06.

[rojocorsa]

The other factor was the ammo. 7.26 Nato was supposedly more inherently accurate than the 06.

Why is that? I know that the match ammo of old used to be in the low 170grs, and both have .308" bullets. Likewise, modern match ammo seems to be 168grs, also with .308" bullets. If anything, the 30-06 with its larger case, shouldn't that have more oomph?

You probably know more about this than I do, so I'm all ears.

[Orlando]

Two rifles being equal as far as wear and ammunition I would give the slight edge to the M1A.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I was talking to a friend the other day about the accuracy of the M1 and the M14; I was under the impression one should expect about 3 MOA from an M1 and about 4 for an M14 (on semi-automatic fire of course). How far off the mark am I? What kind of groups should be expected from these rifles?

It is not uncommon to get a standard M1A that shoots 1 MOA out of the box. Average is going to be 1.5-2 MOA.

Why is that? I know that the match ammo of old used to be in the low 170grs, and both have .308" bullets. Likewise, modern match ammo seems to be 168grs, also with .308" bullets. If anything, the 30-06 with its larger case, shouldn't that have more oomph?

You probably know more about this than I do, so I'm all ears.

I've heard that most .3006 rifles do not have a long enough barrel to utilize the extra powder so when the bullet exits the muzzle, this unburnt powder produces thrust at the rear of the bullet, causing it to wobble ever so slightly as to make the bullet spiral not as efficient over long distances.

[M1A Rifleman]

Why is that? I know that the match ammo of old used to be in the low 170grs, and both have .308" bullets. Likewise, modern match ammo seems to be 168grs, also with .308" bullets. If anything, the 30-06 with its larger case, shouldn't that have more oomph?

You probably know more about this than I do, so I'm all ears.

Accuracy has nothing to do with "oomph". Isn't the 22Lr and some air rifles accurate? Inherent accuracy has more to do with the balance of case dimensions, powder charge, bullet weight, profile etc. Today with modern ammo and components, there may not be any real accuracy difference between the 7.62 and 06.

[Noonanda]

Why is that? I know that the match ammo of old used to be in the low 170grs, and both have .308" bullets. Likewise, modern match ammo seems to be 168grs, also with .308" bullets. If anything, the 30-06 with its larger case, shouldn't that have more oomph?

You probably know more about this than I do, so I'm all ears.

.308/7.62 nato is/was developed as a reduced/shorter version of the 30-06 that is ballistically similar due to the more efficent gun powders developed after WW2. But at longer ranges .30-06 will shoot more accurate due to the extra powder capacity available in the casing resulting in a higher velocity at 1000 yds + ranges.

[glockman19]

Are we talking M14 or M1A? Standard issue M14 probably 4-6", M1A standard 3"-4", M1A Loaded 1-2", M1A Whitefeather, >1".

I have a M1A loaded, bedded action and barrel and get 3 shot groups of > 1" from a seated position with bipod at 100-200 yards.

I'd say the M14/M1A will outshoot the M1

[Geodetic]

In theory the .308/7.62 should be an inherently more accurate cartridge due to tighter space and less area for powder to move around. That being said, the M1 Garand (30-06) take the gas off right near the muzzle making the bullet already out the barrel when the gas system starts slamming around. All this being said any individual gun can be tuned appropriately.

[M1A Rifleman]

", M1A standard 4"-6", .

Must be a bad one. My standard shoots 2-3 with GI ball, and 1-1.5 with my reloads.

[glockman19]

Must be a bad one. My standard shoots 2-3 with GI ball, and 1-1.5 with my reloads.

Corrected my post to 3"-4" although I do believe that they shoot btter.

[Dr. Pepper]

That's interesting, most of the Garand groups I have seen have been a bit tighter that. I've shot better than 6" groups with mine too. But if you say that's what is expected, then it's probably right. You probably know more about the subject than I do.

[rojocorsa]

Does the gas get re-directed sooner in an M1A than it does in an M-1?

[Dr. Pepper]

Are we talking M14 or M1A? Standard issue M14 probably 4-6", M1A standard 3"-4", M1A Loaded 1-2", M1A Whitefeather, >1".

I have a M1A loaded, bedded action and barrel and get 3 shot groups of > 1" from a seated position with bipod at 100-200 yards.

I'd say the M14/M1A will outshoot the M1

I was actually talking about standard military issue rifles. let's not turn this into a piss match either, so let's just post up some objective data on the subject. MOA reports and targets.

[chickenfried]

Wouldn't be fair to compare my cmp garands to a m1a, old surplus rifles vs a six year old gun bought new. But I did have a nice M1 Garand build by Dean's Gun Restorations. My standard m1a was more accurate and my highpower scores went up after switching from the DGR Garand to the M1A. Didn't keep good records back then so I can't give exact details about groups etc.